Spin off from politics/current affairs: WORK

[Pie-Roe]

[fatpies]

[MarJay]

The issue is that you can't have what you want without working for it, unless you're on some sort of benefit scam.

That's the issue... If you want shiney bikes and a nice house, you should work for it. It's not a perfect system, and I'd rather have nice bikes and a shiney house without having to work for it, but that's not the world we live in.

I don't mind people not working as long as they have some means to support themselves, but not working and basically getting all the hard working people to pay for it via taxes and benefits is not on IMO. Sure, if you're incapacitated and can't work fair enough. But if you're Mick Philpott and have two expensive cars, a large house and never have to work a day in your life, that's wrong.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[N cee thirty]

[krarkol]

I wouldn't say it's taking advantage if the people you employed where GCSE drop outs and had no qualifications as working in a fast food chain isn't really skilled work.

It would be however, if the person had worked hard for qualifications but you only paid them minimum wage. They've worked hard yet are being treated the same as someone who just doesn't give a shit.

I'd rather not work for someone and I'd love to have own my own business but it doesn't work like that and not everyone can run their own business as it would just dilute everything!
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Bandit 600 - deaded

[D O G]

The bit that most ignore is that fact that everyone in the UK/developed world are royally shitting on those in Asia and Africa who really do work in horrific conditions to support our lifestyle.

You very rarely see people acknowledge that actually, UK residents are part of the global elite and even the common man should be redistributing his wealth to those below him.

Have a TV? Thank your lucky stars that you even have reliable electricity to power it.

[Mark_F]

[The Artist]

[stinkwheel]

https://the-libertarian.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Socialism-Fails.jpg
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Mark_F]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[_Will_]

It's not joe public shitting on third world countries, it is the corporates and governments that are screwing them over.

Capitalism isn't bad, without exports a lot of these places would be royally fucked, they have the same problem of fat cats exploiting the masses just to a varying rate.

Work is a good way to divide the wealth, providing it is done appropriately, money in itself is a way of allocating resources to people, governments/companies are the ones elected to spread this fairly and get a little perk for doing this, where it goes wrong is when those chosen to do that job realise they can do what they like and hand out less and less while lining their own pockets - the measurement for how they do this is the wealth divide, the bigger the gap the larger the disservice.

The whole "work ethic" mantra is one tool used to keep the machine running, it instilled when it can be reinforced by reward and maintained in harder times.

It is interesting how in this country we are seeing third world traits transferring, lately the trend has been more towards cheap disposable manual labour as it is more cost effective than building and maintaining automated processes - thats when you know the averages persons time is worth much less than it used to be.
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Past -Honda qr50 | 2004 Peugeot Tkr s 50| | 1996 Yamaha XJ600s Diversion|

[-Matt-]

I dont think money is the underlying point of whether youre a mug or not. If you enjoy and get personal value from the job, regardless of the salary you arent a mug. Similarly if you get paid a huge salary yet hate your job, youre a huge mug.

Time is the only real cost and commodity manipulated from many peoples lives, if you spend your time in a manner you enjoy and value - s'all good

[Rogerborg]

https://unsere.de/arbeit_macht_frei_auschwitz.jpg
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[_Will_]

[-Matt-]

I dont understand why you have to do a ''mundane/basic" job. Lost me on the "or go to jail" bit

If you want to do a job you enjoy you have to know and work towards the requirements it needs. Admittedly not all fields have many jobs available in the current time, but the jobs are there - educate yourself enough to stand out above others and you stand as good a chance as any with perhaps the exception of a few select things - i.e argueably higher chances of entering politics with an eton education perhaps

But for the majority of jobs i dont see why there is any reason people cant access that field of work they will have an interest in and enjoy, which is what matters in my book. Of course if salary is more crucial in the greater picture of ''success'' then it becomes complex, but i wouldnt consider that the dominant factor.

Higher salary might make you able to get more happiness outside work through funding a better lifestyle, but could easily mean you lose much of your valueable time outside a job you could hate.

Equally a low salary job could provide enjoyment and much less stress in your life, so although unable to afford to fly around the world first class, overall quality of life is better.

[_Will_]

People take everything as it is now and think thats the way it will always be, the biggest reason to have a problem with the system is where it's headed.

And you must work in a system of forced taxation, don't pay your taxes and jail you go. (or they would have you believe at least)
Well, jail or homeless and shut out of the system.

Yes if you are intelligent/talented you can go it alone and jump through a million hoops to create your own business, if you are average then mundane city it is.

For the record, I have a job which I like, I work for myself and have my own small business, I have enough to get by and don't fall into the unfortunate bottom rung, I have been in the past and understand the plight of many.
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Past -Honda qr50 | 2004 Peugeot Tkr s 50| | 1996 Yamaha XJ600s Diversion|

[-Matt-]

If you have a job whats the issue paying taxes though.

Okay so it doesnt all goto the greatest use, but you can still continue living your life.

How would anything in a governed society be funded otherwise.

If you are average you can work and educate yourself to become above average. If you are.. shall we say "thick", well then thats just a modern day form of natural selection that forces you into a choiceless form of work/salary/lifestyle. Aside from a tiny ''elite'' minority, no one gets something for nothing. If you have no education ability or work skill ability - sadly thats yourself thats at fault and defected, not the society and its potential options.

[_Will_]

Well, it looks like my idea of a basic income is now being considered by the swiss!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqKkERp-ias

A rise in VAT wouldn't be a bad thing if the basic living costs were more manageable.

Also supports some of the views here about doing a job you enjoy.
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Past -Honda qr50 | 2004 Peugeot Tkr s 50| | 1996 Yamaha XJ600s Diversion|

[-Matt-]

To me that sounds like an annual full-time minimum wage, except you automatically get it even if you dont work full time, or even dont work at all.

If you want 'basic income' get a job, surely

[Ste]

Last day at work: 2nd April 2004

[_Will_]

[-Matt-]

I dont see when its ever financially worth not getting a job personally, unless you consider and have security in benefits for your life a feasible option.

If basic salary/minimum wage isnt enough, train in something you like for a couple of years and theres a fairly easily attainable increase from say 10k minimum to 20k average salaries, if having to do additonal training is considered being made to do something for acceptable lifestyle, i think it begins to boil down to expecting something for nothing. Similarly to people who pop out multiple children and moan they cant support them.

Having and funding children are a lifestyle choice like anything else, not a right, so you need to work and attain a job appropriate to fund that choice.

[_Will_]

[-Matt-]