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CBT cerificate for theft of my bike??

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norts85
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Joined: 14 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: CBT cerificate for theft of my bike?? Reply with quote

hi all,im new here and was wondering if anyone could help me with my problem? my motorbike was stolen 3 weeks ago off private property.it was chained up and everything but they came and cut it all off Sad my insurance company is refusing to pay out because i cant produce my cbt certificate as i dont know where it is :/ i could understand them wanting it if i was in a road accident! am i right in thinking they are just trying not to pay me out? they never asked for my CBT certificate when i paid my insurance in full for the year which is third party fire and theft. i have contacted the financial ombudsman service who are writing to the insurance company (aviva) have i done the right thing?? sorry if i have not posted this in the right part of the site,im new here lol

thanks,matt
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toadoftoadhal...
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 19:20 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting problem. Insurance companies will always to to get out of paying a penny if they can.
Cant you get a copy from the place you took the CBT?
Stick with the ombudsman, and take it all the way.
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norts85
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea i tried like 2 months ago but the place isn't there anymore! just my luck :/ i told the ombudsman service to day the problem and i said that when i took the insurance out they never asked for my cbt,quick enough to make my money tho! the bike was worth about 3000 so theres no way im just going to give this up! lol hopefully the ombudsman will sort it,i was just wondering if anyone had anything like the same problem before!
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should be fine, hopefully.

You need your CBT to ride on the road, not to buy insurance. As you quite rightly state, you weren't even riding when the situation arose.

Bad luck having the bike stolen, good luck getting it all sorted Thumbs Up
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norts85
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheers mate! you cant have anything these days! :/
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.M. wrote:
You should be fine, hopefully.

You need your CBT to ride on the road, not to buy insurance. As you quite rightly state, you weren't even riding when the situation arose.

Bad luck having the bike stolen, good luck getting it all sorted Thumbs Up


That entirely depends on the declarations made at the time of the inception of the policy. If the question specifically asked 'do you hold a valid CBT certificate entitling you to ride the vehicle' or similar then insurance may well have been refused had the answer to the question been 'no'. That's non disclosure (the fact he doesn't hold such certificate) and inducement (the fact they would have refused to insure him had they have known otherwise).

On the back of the CBT certificate it states: 'Make sure you keep a separate note of the date and place where you completed your course together with the certificate number and name of training organisation. If you lose this certificate a duplicate may be obtainable from the body with whom you took the course.'

Don't know about you but that sounds mightily like 'DSA don't keep any records so make sure you don't lose your cert boyo'
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kerr
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once the obmusman has contacted them it wont take them long to come kissing your feet dont fret.
Cbt has fuck all to do with insurance, especially when it has been stolen parked, especially when they never asked for proof of cbt.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_entry_of_cbt_certificate_nu
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerr wrote:

Cbt has fuck all to do with insurance, especially when it has been stolen parked, especially when they never asked for proof of cbt.


As I've already stated, it has everything to do with it if it's an important declaration made at the inception of the contract. The manner in which the loss has occurred is irrelevant if the contract can be avoided on the grounds of misrepresentation or non disclosure with solid enough grounds of inducement.
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kerr
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_entry_of_cbt_certificate_nu

FOI,FOI wrote:
It was explained to you on 5 January that when DVLA updates the database with CBT information it has no effect on the individual or their ability to take a motorcycle test. As such, CBT certificates are processed when time and resource are available. The DVLA is not aware of any cases where it has taken 22 months to update CBT information but if you can provide any specific examples then we will be able to look into the matter.

It affects the ability of the individual to take tests if the individual has lost the certificate, so if you lose it you have no way of proving you have taken the course Confused
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerr wrote:
It affects the ability of the individual to take tests if the individual has lost the certificate, so if you lose it you have no way of proving you have taken the course Confused


Then they should look after it if it is important to them, I've still got mine and did my test over 20 years ago.
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kerr
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 14 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marmalade wrote:
kerr wrote:
It affects the ability of the individual to take tests if the individual has lost the certificate, so if you lose it you have no way of proving you have taken the course Confused


Then they should look after it if it is important to them, I've still got mine and did my test over 20 years ago.

True but as far as i knew there would be a record of it somewhere.
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerr wrote:

True but as far as i knew there would be a record of it somewhere.


When I put in for my test last week, I had to provide the identification number of my CBT certificate on the application form. Unfortunately, I had lost the certificate but, the receptionist at the government test centre just put my details into the computer and gave me the number and all was well. Very Happy

I live in the Isle of Man though but, I'd have thought the UK agency/government could do something similar if required too.

Hope you get your full pay out anyway or even better, your bike back in one piece. Thumbs Up
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 03:59 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave70 wrote:
Unfortunately, I had lost the certificate but, the receptionist at the government test centre just put my details into the computer and gave me the number and all was well. Very Happy

I live in the Isle of Man though:


Surprised you didn't get birched tbh.
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 04:13 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Dave70 wrote:
Unfortunately, I had lost the certificate but, the receptionist at the government test centre just put my details into the computer and gave me the number and all was well. Very Happy

I live in the Isle of Man though:


Surprised you didn't get birched tbh.


It's been outlawed for a good few years. Nowadays, the only folk here who like to drop their trousers for a good old birching are the mason.....ahem, I mean the MHK's. Wink
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 08:48 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told that if one were to hold a CBT certificate and a full category B driving license, they would automatically get a 50cc (Category AM?) license entitlement if both were acquired before January 2013.

This is what I got told two years ago when I last did my CBT, never actually researched this at all.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is 2013 and a scrap of paper to prove something so important isn't good enough. Well it isn't good enough when you have said scrap of paper and want to prove MOT/Insurance/etc at the road side.
I would have thought that something so basic as a CBT would be as important as any other document to the DVLA.

What happens if the document was stolen or destroyed?
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
It is 2013 and a scrap of paper to prove something so important isn't good enough. Well it isn't good enough when you have said scrap of paper and want to prove MOT/Insurance/etc at the road side.
I would have thought that something so basic as a CBT would be as important as any other document to the DVLA.


I was riding for a whole year without a CBT when I had my first moped. Unintentionally, of course, it just ran out and I had forgotten to redo it. I was insured during this time too - I guess I wouldn't have been if anything had happened!

But at no point had the insurance company checked that I had a valid certificate, nor did an electronic check. Crazy, eh?
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what we can all take away from this discussion, is that you don't need a CBT unless you're being naughty and get pulled over. I've never once been pulled over, let alone been asked for any documentation. Only time they wanted paperwork was when I wrote off my car and they need MOT/insurance cert/paper license to prove I was legal to be driving at the time.
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ficedula
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dydey90 wrote:
I think what we can all take away from this discussion, is that you don't need a CBT unless you're being naughty and get pulled over.


...or want to take your tests and get a license? Wink
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mr-jermy
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chap

popped a post on my work forum (i work for aviva bonds department not insurance) and from the info i've been given they give you the insurance and 'trust' that you have the valid licence and as part of the standard claims validation process it is something that they ask to see especialy if it is for a large sum of money, the fos probably wont be able to do anything unless you've gone down aviva's complaint route already and not had a sucessful result,

Hope this is of some help

Cheers,

Chris
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

just tell them cbt cert was under bike seat in case you needed to prove you could ride leagally Laughing
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ian505050
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 15 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tell the insurance company that you have now remembered that you laminated it and kept it under your bike seat to show to the police as you had been pulled over in the past and they wanted to see the CBT certificate before you continue your journey.

As there is no national database for CBT certificates you had to carry it around with you and obviously was stolen along with your bike.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

mr-jermy wrote:
fos probably wont be able to do anything unless you've gone down aviva's complaint route already and not had a sucessful result,

Hope this is of some help

Cheers,

Chris


Correct.

You cannot go to FOS till you have reached stalemate with Aviva. That will take 8 weeks. (max they can take) Then it gets to go to FOS who will rule on it. Nice to know is if it does. It will cost Aviva £750, no matter what.

So OP do not expect that FOS contacting Aviva is going to change their stance.

Also note that if your CBT had/has expired. That is a change in circumstance. As such you would have needed to advise them of this FACT....
Failure to do so could invalidate your insurance.....
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