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bunglebubs
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PostPosted: 07:59 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Log Book Loans Reply with quote

I know you can do an HPI check on bikes but is there anyway of finding out if a log book loan has been taken out against a bike? Im looking at possibly buying a bike but after the scare stories I have heard about log book loans I would like to try and cover all bases before spending the dosh only to be hit by something like this.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 08:05 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think these are covered on HPI, it'd be classed as an outstanding finance IMO
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Diquitee
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PostPosted: 08:06 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Log Book Loans Reply with quote

bunglebubs wrote:
I know you can do an HPI check on bikes but is there anyway of finding out if a log book loan has been taken out against a bike? Im looking at possibly buying a bike but after the scare stories I have heard about log book loans I would like to try and cover all bases before spending the dosh only to be hit by something like this.


I've never taken one out myself, but I think when you take a log book loan you hand over your log book as collateral? So I don't think you'd be able to buy one anyway.

As always I could be completely wrong.
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pits
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Log Book Loans Reply with quote

Diquitee wrote:
bunglebubs wrote:
I know you can do an HPI check on bikes but is there anyway of finding out if a log book loan has been taken out against a bike? Im looking at possibly buying a bike but after the scare stories I have heard about log book loans I would like to try and cover all bases before spending the dosh only to be hit by something like this.


I've never taken one out myself, but I think when you take a log book loan you hand over your log book as collateral? So I don't think you'd be able to buy one anyway.

As always I could be completely wrong.


Oh sure here is my log book, and thank you for the £3000 loan, I will pay it back asap.


Oh haiz dvla, I've lost my log book, new ones pleases, sure I will send the money through now for you.

So you like the bike? That's £4000 plizthanks, here is your logbook, doobedoobedooo sign here, and off you go, the bike is now yours.


I would be checking it didn't have a new sparkly V5, freshly printed, and make out a receipt which says you better not be lying about log book loan, or I will break your kegs.
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Diquitee
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Log Book Loans Reply with quote

Diquitee wrote:
bunglebubs wrote:


I've never taken one out myself, but I think when you take a log book loan you hand over your log book as collateral? So I don't think you'd be able to buy one anyway.

As always I could be completely wrong.


Oh sure here is my log book, and thank you for the £3000 loan, I will pay it back asap.


Oh haiz dvla, I've lost my log book, new ones pleases, sure I will send the money through now for you.

So you like the bike? That's £4000 plizthanks, here is your logbook, doobedoobedooo sign here, and off you go, the bike is now yours.



I would be checking it didn't have a new sparkly V5, freshly printed, and make out a receipt which says you better not be lying about log book loan, or I will break your kegs.


Good point. Not had my coffee yet!

In any case they do come up on checks looking into it, I've checked every vehicle I've bought over the past several years and has saved me from getting stung.

Anyone know how long it usually takes from this information to register on the system?
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G
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Log Book Loans Reply with quote

Remember that a log book is 'not proof of ownership'.
If someone stole your bike and applied for the log book, when you told the DVLA they had stolen your bike, they would send the log book off to the thief.
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pits
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the looks of things you hand over the V5
You then sign a "bill of sale" which says that company X owns my vehicle for the period of Y time whilst I repay Z amount of credit back, if Z amount isn't paid back they may repossess my vehicle and take ownership, if it has been registered with the high court.

However there is nothing stopping you from applying for a new V5 before applying
There is nothing stopping you from applying for a new V5 after

Which means there is nothing stopping you from selling said vehicle under a false pretence of "ownership" on the spare V5 to anyone, including to a garage etc.

Which then means you stop payments, they can take the vehicle, but if you have already sold it on they will still take the bike from whomever you sold it to.
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd never touch one of those types of loans but the log book loan companies and payday type firms are constantly getting a kicking in the press whilst doing everything they can (outwardly) to try and convince they are reputable customer focussed companies.

My point being I'd not imagine that a company (that gets enough bad press) would come after a bike if 1. you can prove you bought it in good faith (nothing dodgy) and 2. made reasonable attemps to verify its status ie; hpi check.

Now I may be totally off the mark but trying to gain a good reputation is high on these sorts of firms agenda at the mo. I really don't think they'd jepodise it for a few grand, maybe if it was 15/20k it might be different but as far as I know the majority of these loans are low value upto 5k ish. I'd not imagine people getting these loans and then selling the veichle on is a major issue.

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goto10
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:

My point being I'd not imagine that a company (that gets enough bad press) would come after a bike if 1. you can prove you bought it in good faith (nothing dodgy) and 2. made reasonable attemps to verify its status ie; hpi check.


They wouldn't care. They would take it.
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

goto10 wrote:
fozzym wrote:

My point being I'd not imagine that a company (that gets enough bad press) would come after a bike if 1. you can prove you bought it in good faith (nothing dodgy) and 2. made reasonable attemps to verify its status ie; hpi check.


They wouldn't care. They would take it.


I'm not sure; I've just been speaking to a lawyer mate at the school gate! He says that a buyer has to take "reasonable steps" to make sure there is no outstanding finance on a vehicle they which they purchase.

And the flip side being the finacial institution with an interest in a vehicle has to make reasonable steps to insure the status of the vehicle is available ie giving the info to hpi.

So from that I take that if a logbook loan firm doesn't register an interest in a vehicle with hpi ect then they haven't taken reasonable steps to ensure the status of the vehicle is available.

A buyer can only take certain steps to ensure the vehicle has no outstanding finance. If it doesn't come up on hpi then either hpi are at fault in which case you can sue them or that the finance company hasn't registered an interest in which case how can anyone know!

Obviously if you buy a stolen vehicle you are bugger regardless.

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pits
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fozzy when you take out a loan, they give you an essential bill of dale, which is then registered with the high court to show they have a vested interest in the vehicle
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

pits wrote:
Fozzy when you take out a loan, they give you an essential bill of dale, which is then registered with the high court to show they have a vested interest in the vehicle


Yes that's fine but the info has to be accessible to others by the usual hpi type check means.

Obviously its not a situation anyone wants to be in, I'm just suggesting that its not as simple as to say that if you were to inadvertently buy a vehicle involved in this kind of dispute that the new "owner" would necessarily lose out, because of the reasons I outlined previously

The log book loan man isn't just going to turn up and take the bike. There are going to be lenghty court proceedings I'd suggest.

Hey my school gate man might be off the mark but it kind of makes sense.

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goto10
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:
my school gate man


<pedobear.jpg>
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iooi
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:
I'd not imagine people getting these loans and then selling the veichle on is a major issue.

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Logbook Loans are secured on your vehicle!

Our representative APR IS 442.66%. Loans secured on your car. Logbook Loans Direct is owned and operated by Logbook Money


So you think someone desperate enough to borrow at that interest rate is NOT prepared to then sell the car when they can't afford to pay it back.....
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 16 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
fozzym wrote:
I'd not imagine people getting these loans and then selling the veichle on is a major issue.

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Quote:


Logbook Loans are secured on your vehicle!

Our representative APR IS 442.66%. Loans secured on your car. Logbook Loans Direct is owned and operated by Logbook Money


So you think someone desperate enough to borrow at that interest rate is NOT prepared to then sell the car when they can't afford to pay it back.....


Big difference in being desperate enough to use high interest loans and being unscrupulous enough to try and rip someone off by selling a vehicle you know is not strictly yours to sell.

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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 05:34 - 17 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go without food before turning to one of those robbing bastards in the high street.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 17 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:
Big difference in being desperate enough to use high interest loans and being unscrupulous enough to try and rip someone off by selling a vehicle you know is not strictly yours to sell.

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You think so......

Wake up smell the coffee and join the real world.

These people are in such a mess that this is the next step in the line to trying to get out of the mire.

Are they worried... Are they hell. Their credit is already shot to hell. They will simply move on and make it harder for them to be found.
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pits
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 17 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
fozzym wrote:
Big difference in being desperate enough to use high interest loans and being unscrupulous enough to try and rip someone off by selling a vehicle you know is not strictly yours to sell.

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You think so......

Wake up smell the coffee and join the real world.

These people are in such a mess that this is the next step in the line to trying to get out of the mire.

Are they worried... Are they hell. Their credit is already shot to hell. They will simply move on and make it harder for them to be found.

Desperate people make desperate decisions, to get out of desperate situations with no real thought of what is going to happen when it catches up.
No different to people using payday loans, if you're using a payday loan you're merely thinking 30 days in advance, when 30 days is up figure out a way to get out of that problem.



There was a guy who lived not that far from me, lost his job at council, he was left with a massive mortgage to pay, no prospect of a job, no family, no ties. What he did was go to the bank, took out a £20k home improvement loan, which he got as a mortgage holder and had really good credit. He then went to every single high street bank in a day and applied for either another loan or a credit card, he withdrew all the money into his current account, funnelled it to Luxembourg, then to Australia, bought a plane ticket and never returned.

Desperate times call for desperate measures
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 17 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
fozzym wrote:
Big difference in being desperate enough to use high interest loans and being unscrupulous enough to try and rip someone off by selling a vehicle you know is not strictly yours to sell.

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You think so......

Wake up smell the coffee and join the real world.

These people are in such a mess that this is the next step in the line to trying to get out of the mire.

Are they worried... Are they hell. Their credit is already shot to hell. They will simply move on and make it harder for them to be found.


Yeah you're right, I guess the next logical step will be conning the old lady up the road out of her life savings!

These people are frickin desperate after all.

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tahrey
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 18 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

pits wrote:
By the looks of things you hand over the V5
You then sign a "bill of sale" which says that company X owns my vehicle for the period of Y time whilst I repay Z amount of credit back, if Z amount isn't paid back they may repossess my vehicle and take ownership, if it has been registered with the high court.

However there is nothing stopping you from applying for a new V5 before applying
There is nothing stopping you from applying for a new V5 after

Which means there is nothing stopping you from selling said vehicle under a false pretence of "ownership" on the spare V5 to anyone, including to a garage etc.

Which then means you stop payments, they can take the vehicle, but if you have already sold it on they will still take the bike from whomever you sold it to.


Except presumably they will also have your name, address, and the details of the bank account they paid the loan advance into, and you will be swiftly done for loan fraud.
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