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MotoGP Australia (spoilers)

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Snorty
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: MotoGP Australia (spoilers) Reply with quote
Set the alarm this morning and watched the Australian MotoGP.

Interestingly the tyres couldn't cope with the new surface / temperature so they had to reduce the laps to 19 from 27 and do a pit stop to swap to spare bike with new tyres.

Marquez disqualified, which does give Lorenzo a marginally better chance at getting the championship, but he'd have to win the next two races and Marquez come fourth... not much chance there!

Anybody else watch it? What did you think of it?
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's a bit of a farce and Bridgestone are just Pirelli in disguise. I mean seriously; harder tyre, had to be at correct pressure, and the most you can run it for is 9 laps - less than 30 fricking miles.

C'mon. C'mon..... C'moooooon.
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CarlosCBR
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most interesting race all year. Thought this rule toss up was great to watch. Marquez was just a tool coming in a lap too late. Few riders had big moments and Cal and Bradley both in top 6 was awesome to see.
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Snorty
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think without the disqualification Lorenzo would have still been first, he held Marquez off until the tyres went off, and so would probably have done it on a fresh set too.

The rest of the places were kind of gifted. I realise the rules are the rules but you'd feel a slight bit of disappointment being gifted a podium.
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bEN_
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drew wrote:
imo, Rossi should be 2nd. Pedrosa had to drop a place, and you can't drop a place to a disqualified rider, so Pedrosa hasn't yet served his penalty.


He dropped the place before marc was disqualified
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bEN_
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Officially i think it's the lap the flag goes out to the rider.
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marc is a dangerous bastard at times and again he did something extremely stupid, when he was exiting the pit lane he looked behind him to see Lorenzo and Pedrosa bombing down the straight at +200mph and then he has the brain storm of an idea of exiting the pit lane at 60 and diving straight for the racing line to block Lorenzo and Pedrosa, he was lucky not to have an serious accident with Lorenzo.

Disqualification was fair for doing the extra lap, they were all told before the race what the penalty was for not coming in on lap 9 or 10.
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Snorty
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
They should give him another point for the pit lane exit manoeuvre - then he'll have to start at the back of the grid. Would make the championship fight more interesting then Laughing

He only has to finish third in the next two races and Lorenzo finish first and they'd be equal on points.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
I think it's a bit of a farce and Bridgestone are just Pirelli in disguise. I mean seriously; harder tyre, had to be at correct pressure, and the most you can run it for is 9 laps - less than 30 fricking miles.

C'mon. C'mon..... C'moooooon.


How would they know what the tyres would do, when it was a new surface. So they had no tyre data at all, and have brought the hardest tyre.

I assume now they have all the tyre data, this won't happen next year.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
UrbanRacer wrote:
Marc is a dangerous bastard at times and again he did something extremely stupid, when he was exiting the pit lane he looked behind him to see Lorenzo and Pedrosa bombing down the straight at +200mph and then he has the brain storm of an idea of exiting the pit lane at 60 and diving straight for the racing line to block Lorenzo and Pedrosa, he was lucky not to have an serious accident with Lorenzo.

Disqualification was fair for doing the extra lap, they were all told before the race what the penalty was for not coming in on lap 9 or 10.


They were playing with semantics I believe.

The rule was that they could only complete 10 laps on the tyre.

If Marquez's garage was before the start/finish line, then the swap would have been done before the completion of lap 11.

I don't think Marquez did what he did on purpose either, as Lorenzo said he ran wider than expected, Marquez couldn't predict that, plus the difficulty in judging speed of stuff travelling 140mph faster, while looking backwards.

I have never really liked Lorenzo, but the way he has changed and picked up speed this season to fight with Marquez is extremely impressive, and as much as it would be awesome to see him clinch the title at the end, I can't see Marquez dropping 18 points to him in 2 races.
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
They do 200mph every lap, why would that lap be any different? he knew what he was doing and lucky for him he got away with it.

as for the garage being before the start/finish line, perfect example of why pits stops should not be a part of MotoGP except for rain.

Bridgestone should have tested and they could have had a tyre that would have lasted the race.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
UrbanRacer wrote:
They do 200mph every lap, why would that lap be any different? he knew what he was doing and lucky for him he got away with it.

as for the garage being before the start/finish line, perfect example of why pits stops should not be a part of MotoGP except for rain.


But it's not every lap you're trying to judge the closing distance of somebody doing 140mph more than you on a race track.

How about, you stay stationary on a motorway hard shoulder, take a single glance over your shoulder, and then try and pull out safely and quickly.

And that is only doing 60mph, then you need to double it.

It's racing, Marquez did attempt to make it tight that is undeniable, but he can't predict Lorenzo missing his braking point and running wide.
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
UrbanRacer wrote:
They do 200mph every lap, why would that lap be any different? he knew what he was doing and lucky for him he got away with it.

as for the garage being before the start/finish line, perfect example of why pits stops should not be a part of MotoGP except for rain.


But it's not every lap you're trying to judge the closing distance of somebody doing 140mph more than you on a race track.

How about, you stay stationary on a motorway hard shoulder, take a single glance over your shoulder, and then try and pull out safely and quickly.

And that is only doing 60mph, then you need to double it.

It's racing, Marquez did attempt to make it tight that is undeniable, but he can't predict Lorenzo missing his braking point and running wide.


He's been racing since he was a kid, he knows exactly what the closing speed and distance is. "if i go for the racing line maybe lorenzo will have a moment trying to avoid me and i can stay in front."
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:


How would they know what the tyres would do, when it was a new surface. So they had no tyre data at all, and have brought the hardest tyre.

I assume now they have all the tyre data, this won't happen next year.


Bridgestone are currently in talks with Dorna to have a test there over winter so it won't happen again.

It was like a two wheeled F1 today, and since when has anyone had to drop a place for pitlane speeding. What a joke.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
UrbanRacer wrote:

He's been racing since he was a kid, he knows exactly what the closing speed and distance is. "if i go for the racing line maybe lorenzo will have a moment trying to avoid me and i can stay in front."


But never at these speeds.

He has never done a flag-to-flag race before, and has never changed bikes before.

As I said, he made it tight, but Lorenzo missed his braking point.

Assuming he did try to block him, it wouldn't have been an illegal move.

The rules state that leaving the pits you mustn't cross the white line, which he never did.

The rules also state that you can make 1 move across the track to defend a position, more movements is illegal blocking.

Once he exited the white line Marquez was "on track" and in position and racing for position regardless of speed differences, he was entitled to defend his position.

Bikes on the track only have priority over those leaving the pit lane, Marquez had already left before Lorenzo reached him, therefore the rider in front (technically Marquez at this point) had priority and right of way, since Lorenzo was the overtaking rider, it was his job to do it safely.

It was a 50/50 incident, they BOTH made mistakes and incorrect assumptions.

Marquez, left very little room, but was not entirely on the racing line, making it difficult.

Lorenzo over shot the corner and ran way too ride.

Lorenzo also stated that he was partially to blame, and it wasn't the fault of Marquez too.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:

It was like a two wheeled F1 today, and since when has anyone had to drop a place for pitlane speeding. What a joke.


Pit lane speeding in other racing would get you a drive through penalty, which would easily cost you 30 seconds on track.

Dropping a place for speeding in the pit lane is a soft penalty, if he had been given the usual drive through, Pedrosa would have been way back on the track.

Guy Martin was given a 30second penalty at the TT for speeding in the pit lane.
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:

It was like a two wheeled F1 today, and since when has anyone had to drop a place for pitlane speeding. What a joke.


Pit lane speeding in other racing would get you a drive through penalty, which would easily cost you 30 seconds on track.

Dropping a place for speeding in the pit lane is a soft penalty, if he had been given the usual drive through, Pedrosa would have been way back on the track.

Guy Martin was given a 30second penalty at the TT for speeding in the pit lane.


It is a soft penalty indeed - anything related to safety, like speeding in the pit lane, should be punished swiftly and strongly. Dropping a place seems like a punishment plucked out of Dorna's arse to be honest.
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
UrbanRacer wrote:

He's been racing since he was a kid, he knows exactly what the closing speed and distance is. "if i go for the racing line maybe lorenzo will have a moment trying to avoid me and i can stay in front."


But never at these speeds.

He has never done a flag-to-flag race before, and has never changed bikes before.

As I said, he made it tight, but Lorenzo missed his braking point.

Assuming he did try to block him, it wouldn't have been an illegal move.

The rules state that leaving the pits you mustn't cross the white line, which he never did.

The rules also state that you can make 1 move across the track to defend a position, more movements is illegal blocking.

Once he exited the white line Marquez was "on track" and in position and racing for position regardless of speed differences, he was entitled to defend his position.

Bikes on the track only have priority over those leaving the pit lane, Marquez had already left before Lorenzo reached him, therefore the rider in front (technically Marquez at this point) had priority and right of way, since Lorenzo was the overtaking rider, it was his job to do it safely.

It was a 50/50 incident, they BOTH made mistakes and incorrect assumptions.

Marquez, left very little room, but was not entirely on the racing line, making it difficult.

Lorenzo over shot the corner and ran way too ride.

Lorenzo also stated that he was partially to blame, and it wasn't the fault of Marquez too.


Its not as black and white as that. he was going too slow to be going for the racing line. as you say Lorenzo was perhaps a little wide but that is exactly why he should have used more caution with the speeds involved at this part of the track.
Race direction are investigating now anyway, hope he gets another point and starts from the back in Japan
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Slacker24seven wrote:
PhilDawson8270 wrote:


Pit lane speeding in other racing would get you a drive through penalty, which would easily cost you 30 seconds on track.

Dropping a place for speeding in the pit lane is a soft penalty, if he had been given the usual drive through, Pedrosa would have been way back on the track.

Guy Martin was given a 30second penalty at the TT for speeding in the pit lane.


It is a soft penalty indeed - anything related to safety, like speeding in the pit lane, should be punished swiftly and strongly. Dropping a place seems like a punishment plucked out of Dorna's arse to be honest.


It's also rather grey. Did he give up the place or was it taken from him?

Just give him a ride through penalty. That way everyone knows where he stands.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:

It's also rather grey. Did he give up the place or was it taken from him?

Just give him a ride through penalty. That way everyone knows where he stands.


This.

IMO Rossi should get the second position.

I've never been a Lorenzo fan but I'd love to see him win this year, he's ridden his arse off for it.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:


This.

IMO Rossi should get the second position.

I've never been a Lorenzo fan but I'd love to see him win this year, he's ridden his arse off for it.


Without wishing to come across as a Rossi fan boy, I'd agree. Although I'd prefer Marquez to win as he's rocked up this year and made everyone in the class raise their game.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
What a total farce.....

Why as they had stated stop on lap 9 or 10 was Marquez even allowed to go back out again.
He should have been held in pits.

Speeding in pit lane.. Drop one place? but if the guy behind stops you stay where you are..... FFS who dreamed up that one.....

Pit lane made longer, great idea. Gives riders time to match the speed of riders on the track. But to then increase the speed limited area, as well....

Time someone got the sack for such a fuck up.
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