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If the world was a perfectly functioning Communist system...

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Derivative
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24856867.jpg

And purple, and red, and blue, and yellow, and...

Back on topic, one of the things I'd like to do is learn another language or two.

So I suppose that's one of the things I could crack on with. Right now it seems a bit like the cost-benefit isn't worth it - I may well end up working outside of the UK, but I think I'd end up learning while in the country (because I won't know in advance, really).


Last edited by Derivative on 11:40 - 20 Oct 2013; edited 1 time in total
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
pepperami wrote:

Cos I wouldn't have to work so many hours to make a living

Wouldn't you?
Or would you have to work just as many, but get a bigger share.
If everyone gets the same, presumably everyone works the same too.
If everyone works the same, it will presumably be judged what is the best number of working hours for the society in general. This may not be what you think is best Smile.


Now you`ve spoilt my vision of how I`d be better off in the communist society Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad mutter mutter mutter
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're working on the premise that we're in utopia land in which machines make everything.

Otherwise, yeah, I'd probably start the revolution or cap myself. No way am I making tins of beans for five years just because that's my allocation.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had an awesome shiny watch once Very Happy . Cost me like £90 and was awesome. Then it broke while I was in India, it had a warranty so I posted it back to the UK to deal with later. It never made it home... Laughing.

Now that I look back, I can totally understand the points Mr S-Coburg-G is making. A lot of people actually commented on my nice watch, but to the rather less well-off Indian folk I must have looked a real dick, totally exacerbating the 'West is best' attitude. Then again plenty of upper class Indians are exactly the same - shiny shiny nicey nicey. Who can we blame? Yeeeah the capitalists boooo! Or maybe it's human nature.

Now I can't bare to own anything more than the functional essentials. But I don't want to get a £5 Casio because I'll look too hipster. So I have no watch. I'm such a div Laughing.

Actually nah that's not entirely true. My phone is my watch. If I had no phone, I'd get a cheap watch. I guess the point is that I don't need the watch because I have a time-keeping device already, ergo I try to stick to just having the essentials.

I'd say I go for 'functional' rather then prestigious. Come to think of it, the nicest 'thing' I have is my my new laptop. And my ten year old, fuel-economical motorbike. Aside from that, I'm quite smug about how bare my level of ownership is really.

I know it's a fairly standard thing to say, but I'd rather spend my money on things that will help me grow permanently, rather than just give me a bit of a jolly in the short term. This year I took up Chinese and accidentally joined a Kung Fu class. Per year it's gonna cost me a maximum of £450, but after, say, three years of learning, it becomes a lifelong investment, and that to me is fucking awesome and priceless.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm.

I try to limit myself to owning low amounts of 'stuff' because it's a hassle. Your objects end up owning you.

I could pretty much fit my life on the motorcycle if it wasn't for work. That whole extra wardrobe of suits shoes and shirts take up a fair whack of room.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
It's not even the craftsmanship.


Craftsmanship having an appeal rather kills the idea of people having what they want. After all if what people want is something that takes hundreds of hours of work from a person with rare skills then very few people are going to be able to have one.

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smegballs
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
I'd say I go for 'functional' rather then prestigious.


Then you get into the bits when the expensive stuff is the best for the task at hand.

I've got a high-end(ish) bike pump, not for tart factor, but because when cycling out in the Portuguese desert miles from anywhere, I want to rely on the precision CNC-machined solid ally german bike pump, rather than a piece of chinese plastic shit for a fiver. That need for reliability is what drives the purchase of good gear. Same too with my solar panel, its more or less the best one of that class on the market. Not because I want to show off to people, but because for two months this summer, ALL my power needs (charge phone/gps, charge AAA's for headtorch/bike lights) came from that solar panel (due to being cycle touring, hence no access to AC power) and I needed something that wouldn't let me down.


You wouldn't attempt an Everest climb with some discount Hi-Gear kit you bought on sale at Go Outdoors, you go to a specialist mountaineering shop and pay through the nose for some top-notch kit because that is what the situation demands.


OTOH my phone is an ancient nokia 1100, because it ticks all the boxes I need from a phone: tough, long battery life, calls, texts, torch (surprisingly useful), cheap enough I don't cry when it dies/gets lost.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:


You wouldn't attempt an Everest climb with some discount Hi-Gear kit you bought on sale at Go Outdoors,


....... I would Laughing

Or at least I'd like to have a good bash at doing things the 'old fashioned' way, before technology made everything so much easier aka dumbed down and wrapped in cotton wool.

I know that's a really Luddite attitude though. Might just be a 'man' thing, heh.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
OTOH my phone is an ancient nokia 1100, because it ticks all the boxes I need from a phone: tough, long battery life, calls, texts, torch (surprisingly useful), cheap enough I don't cry when it dies/gets lost.


I really find the phone obsession odd. I don't get it.

As stated in the other thread, my phone cost fifty quid. It has a keyboard for text messaging because that's the secondary use case after calling.

I don't understand people that spend ridiculous sums of money on phones to the extent of having to really scrimp in other areas.

I have friends that I know struggle to pay rent/bills and yet have these ridiculous space age devices. What's more, they don't actually seem that enamoured with them. It's almost like some sort of habit that they do without thinking, 40 quid a month contract, job done.

That's one of the main reasons I think capitalism 'fails'. While you say the pursuit of wealth is #1, I only really see that amongst select groups. Many people are out there not really 'getting it' and as such they get shafted on a regular basis. Not only the poor, but those on middle incomes too.

Lord Percy wrote:
....... I would Laughing


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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just a phone though, is it? It's the Internet, a sat nav, a camera...etc.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tungtvann wrote:
It's not just a phone though, is it? It's the Internet, a sat nav, a camera...etc.


Right, and so is my fifty quid android phone.

I work in IT, my laptop is worth a good whack, I get the appeal of good kit.

But the people I see with these trick phones are not buying it for that. I don't know their reasoning. It could be bling factor, it could be that the salesman was particularly persuasive. I don't know.

I have had more than one person come to me having bought stuff like the Galaxy S series months after release on silly money contracts not knowing how to use the internet browser.

To each his own, I obviously buy my share of silly luxuries. Phones just seem to be very pervasive amongst those who really can't afford them and I see it as a clear counter-example of the whole 'rational agents' theory.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing I guess is spending money to save money.

I've yet to use a hotel/hostel etc etc, I prefer to just find somewhere out of the way (usually a field) and just kip there. Spending money on gucchi bivvy bags and sleeping bags allows me to do this in relative comfort. However by now I've probably slept outside enough to easily recoup the costs of potential nights in hotels, plus I get to keep the gear.

Similarly investing in the tools to fix your own vehicles, while the initial outlay might be more than getting it done by a mechanic, it soon pays for itself if you have a lot of problems (as is often the case with old knackered bikes) not to mention you are learning a useful skill to boot.

I agree with derivative about money being the motivator for a lot of learning. I never set out to learn mechanics per se, it was the by-product of owning old shit bikes and not having enough cash for a mechanic. I never set out to learn about building a PC, I just wanted to play BFBC2 in the cheapest way possible: the effect of that was doing a lot of research and learning into pc hardware.

I'm a massive gear-whore and thus each of my purchases isn't guided by something as fickle as advertising. I'm the type of guy who spends hours upon hours researching something as simple as a flashlight. Reading loads of reviews, watching youtube vids etc etc. What battery tech is the best? Can the li-ion batteries be charged up from my solar panels in the field etc etc. What brand of LED is most reliable? Laughing
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd hazard a guess that we're already from a world where everything is made and done by machines and we became so fucking bored of it all we created this shithole in a computer for something to jazz up the existential abyss.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 20 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
I'd hazard a guess that we're already from a world where everything is made and done by machines and we became so fucking bored of it all we created this shithole in a computer for something to jazz up the existential abyss.


For me personally, a comfortable life is one of the worst things that can happen. With any urgent demands removed, I simply sit up all night of the internet and/or play computer games. A complete waste of time.

I need relatively high amounts of stress to overcome my inbuilt laziness and actually make me do something. For me stress is a booster not a crippler.

Two flights to a foreign land with a long time between them does the trick pretty well. That's what I did this summer, went to portugal at the start of july with a flight book home for early september. I'm far too stubborn to pay to get a flight back early (barring dying family or whatever) so once I'm there, I'm there. Was pretty cool, as soon as I landed I kicked over to "survival mode" and had a pretty cool time cycling around the country.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's sit on the beach with a cocktail all day then go for a ride on the bike.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:10 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:


For me personally, a comfortable life is one of the worst things that can happen. With any urgent demands removed, I simply sit up all night of the internet and/or play computer games. A complete waste of time.



This is the kind of comment that interests me. What's not a "waste of time"? Working in order to provide food? What does the food ensure? Your survival? For what do you survive? More work? Or play?

Either every single minute of your life is a "waste of time" or not a single minute of it is. I can see no grey area personally. Even if you were made to sit at a desk and stare at a wall, you'd go inside your head and play in imagination.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:


For me personally, a comfortable life is one of the worst things that can happen. With any urgent demands removed, I simply sit up all night of the internet and/or play computer games. A complete waste of time.


Ah but touché! What urgent demand pushed you to fly to Portugal for all of summer?!

With such freedoms, we all find ways to fill our time. Those who don't get left on the pile of glutton and sloth.

You, sir, went to Portugal!
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G
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Interestingly, a lot of the stuff you've listed there is just stuff that you like to think you want because it's been presented and upsold to you as the utmost requirement for the perfect life. Consumer Vision!

I disagree.
Has society ever told me I should fly hanggliders?
No. I saw a red bull event on TV many many years ago and thought it looked really fun. I wish society had told me I wanted to ride dirt bikes/do track days. I left off doing both for some time, but found they were really enjoyable when I did do them.

And yes I threw the 'super yacht' thing in - but as per Derivative - I'd suggest more that it's because it would be 'awesome'. I already have a motorhome and enjoy that (including using it to provide various entertainment at the BCF BBQ) - a massive yacht is just a step or two up

As for people not spending their time helping others - this being the perfect communist society, that probably wouldn't be allowed - because you'd then be elevating the people you're helping above 'equal' Smile.

I was listening to something on the radio last night which discussed charity - and how in reality a lot of people are doing it partly to reward themselves. Rather than, say, researching the best way your money/time could be possibly be used to a specific end.

As it goes in the past I've idly thought about a 'commune' where stuff was shared.
For instance, I have a chain saw, which I got to cut down a couple of trees at my Gran's house as it was the cheapest way to do it. I hardly ever use said tool and would happily lend it to others. I always have more vehicles than I can use at once and don't mind lending them.
So, why not formalise this with a group of friends.
Maybe you could say, buy a good bit of land together and build some houses on there so it's more convenient.
While I like cooking, I always liked the idea of having someone ready to cook me want I wanted when I wanted when I'm busy, or just don't have the ingredients to hand. People could take it in turns to do the cooking, while others did the jobs for the community they preferred - maybe gardening etc?
More efficient and nicer if people do the stuff they like, but save time by doing it for everyone - it takes a lot time for one person to cook ten meals than for ten people to cook one, even if they are different meals.
Of course, reasonably people who bring in more 'stuff' are going to be better rewarded, we expect. Someone that owns a £500k aeroplane is probably going to expect to get some decent reward for allowing others to use it - afterall, instead they could have probably bought all the cars and bikes owned by the rest of the collective and still had change left over.
Similarly, someone who's skills required a lot of work to acquire, such as a Vet, may well expect their 7 years at uni be rewarded more than a 17 year old who's washing dishes.
So we need some way to value goods and services provided.
Yes, sadly; I invented a typical capitalist society. Dang Sad.

Computer games is a good item to add to my list - very rare I get time to play them these days (though did spend a bit too long on Trials Evo when it came out.)
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Clutchy
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only read the first page but people would probably get quite bored and the thing they'd look forward to is having babies sooooo overpopulation...



Or no?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
A lot of people actually commented on my nice watch, but to the rather less well-off Indian folk I must have looked a real dick, totally exacerbating the 'West is best' attitude.

To be fair, swanning around India having Experiences is socio-economically teabagging them to begin with. The watch was just extra ball sweat.
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I didn't need to spend my time acquiring just enough wealth to pay my rent, bills etc. then I would spend my time acquiring knowledge and passing that knowledge onto my kid/s. A bit like what I intend to do for the next year of maternity leave really, my rent & bills should be covered so I can concentrate on the little one when it's born, and hopefully be able to learn some new skills myself, if I have the time!

What sort of things would I do / learn? I'd definitely learn more about growing my own fruit and veg, maybe some more motorbike maintenance, delve deeper into the world of yoga and meditation, get a load more exercise, cook some awesome meals, practice a bit of photography, read all kinds of books, crochet, macrame, make clothes, and bring up a little free thinker with a vivid imagination! Basically a lot more of what I do in my spare time now.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:

As it goes in the past I've idly thought about a 'commune' where stuff was shared.
For instance, I have a chain saw, which I got to cut down a couple of trees at my Gran's house as it was the cheapest way to do it. I hardly ever use said tool and would happily lend it to others. I always have more vehicles than I can use at once and don't mind lending them.
So, why not formalise this with a group of friends.
Maybe you could say, buy a good bit of land together and build some houses on there so it's more convenient. etc etc


As right-wing as I am, I actually think stuff like this is a really good idea.....

...As long as said sharing/co-operation is done on a voluntary basis, between consenting parties.


Sadly IRL it seems that collectivist types have no issue compelling you to be part of the happy-people sharing-club, under threat of jamming a ** insert russian-made weapon here** in your face and marching you off to the GULAG.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd lie in the grass down by the riverbank making daisy chains in the sunshine and reading trashy novels.

And in the wintertime I would write trashy novels whilst eating toasted cheese and pickle sandwiches beside a blazing fire.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I summarily execute reactionary scum and enemies of the state by neck shooting them in public - just like my heroes the NKVD used to do. Thumbs Up
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 21 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
I summarily execute reactionary scum and enemies of the state by neck shooting them in public - just like my heroes the NKVD used to do. Thumbs Up


Be careful, the ones pulling the trigger usually found themselves being the poor bastards lined up against the wall at some point in the future....

Wink
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