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Just a DVLA question to avoid a fine again

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ian505050
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Just a DVLA question to avoid a fine again Reply with quote
I have bought a bike and the seller has posted the V5. I have returned the bike to my garage in a van. The bike currently has Tax and MOT but i do not intend using or insuring it for quite some time so it is currently not insured.

At what point do i have to declare it SORN? How many days after the seller signs and posts the V5 does it need to be SORN'd?

Also can i SORN the bike with the little green slip or do i need to await the full V5?

If i do SORN the bike will i loose the 11 months Tax that is on the bike or will it be put on hold until i un-SORN the bike?

Hopefully someone who is up on this stuff can advise as i cant seem to find this specific info on the DVLA site. In the past i have called the DVLA to ask these questions but they have given me false information on the phone in error and fined me for their errors.

Thanks Ian
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Az
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Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
This isn't definite but, i'm sure some one will correct me if i'm wrong. When you sorn your vehicle you get a refund on the tax (not the full amount) and you have to buy tax for the bike again when you un-sorn it. Not sure about everything else, sorry i couldn't help much lol.
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ian505050
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaAz wrote:
This isn't definite but i'm sure some one will correct me if i'm wrong but when you sorn your vehicle you get a refund on the tax (not the full amount though) not sure about everything else, sorry i couldn't help much lol.


Thats alright mate, every one likesa tryer. Just after definitive information if anybody knows as the DVLA do not like me. Sad
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-Matt-
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I recently wanted to leave my bike uninsured two months so i rang the DVLA to ask if it was really nescessary to SORN and retax just for the 2 month period. IIRC they said in real terms you have over a month at least uninsured, as they will issue the warning paper [if they do send it/you recieve it of course - there lies the main risk i think] and then you obviously again have a little bit of time to respond, so they said you could probably get away with leaving it 2 months but they wouldn't want to give their word on it Laughing

I ended up leaving it uninsured longer and have SORNed the bike now. You need to make a vehicle tax refund request [can be printed via the DVLA website, little form you selotape your disc onto], but i think you probably may need the full V5 as it asks a few references from it to confirm the vehicle.

You will then recieve a refund for the remaining FULL months of tax. If you are part way into a month of tax the remainder of that month will be lost.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a DVLA question to avoid a fine again Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
If i do SORN the bike will i loose the 11 months Tax that is on the bike or will it be put on hold until i un-SORN the bike?

From my understanding of the legislation:

SORN is supposed to be something that you do when you surrender a vehicle license (the tax disc) for a refund or when it runs out.

That means that if you don't surrender the license, then you're not actually making a SORN according to the letter of the law.

However, the DVLA is happy to list your bike as SORNed even if you don't surrender the license (because it's more money in their pockets).

SORNing does not invalidate the license. The physical tax disc is the license. If you still have it, and it's on the bike, you're good to ride it on the road at any time.

You can tell the DVLA that the bike is going to be used on the road again, but you don't have to, and you're committing no offence by doing so, as long as it's insured and has a license (tax disc) attached.

As I say, that's my reading of the law. The DVLA, coppers and courts may have different ones, or might not have read it.
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Wonko The Sane
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Joined: 20 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a DVLA question to avoid a fine again Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
ian505050 wrote:
If i do SORN the bike will i loose the 11 months Tax that is on the bike or will it be put on hold until i un-SORN the bike?

From my understanding of the legislation:

SORN is supposed to be something that you do when you surrender a vehicle license (the tax disc) for a refund or when it runs out.

That means that if you don't surrender the license, then you're not actually making a SORN according to the letter of the law.

However, the DVLA is happy to list your bike as SORNed even if you don't surrender the license (because it's more money in their pockets).

SORNing does not invalidate the license. The physical tax disc is the license. If you still have it, and it's on the bike, you're good to ride it on the road at any time.

You can tell the DVLA that the bike is going to be used on the road again, but you don't have to, and you're committing no offence by doing so, as long as it's insured and has a license (tax disc) attached.

As I say, that's my reading of the law. The DVLA, coppers and courts may have different ones, or might not have read it.


It is worth noting that some insurance companies will withdraw and cancel issuance (without telling you) if your vehicle has been SORNed

happend to a mate who was working on his land rover and so had it off the road for a while when the tax (but not insurance) had run out.
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2 litre
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Joined: 31 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 24 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a DVLA question to avoid a fine again Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
I have bought a bike and the seller has posted the V5. I have returned the bike to my garage in a van. The bike currently has Tax and MOT but i do not intend using or insuring it for quite some time so it is currently not insured.

At what point do i have to declare it SORN? How many days after the seller signs and posts the V5 does it need to be SORN'd?

Also can i SORN the bike with the little green slip or do i need to await the full V5?

If i do SORN the bike will i loose the 11 months Tax that is on the bike or will it be put on hold until i un-SORN the bike?

Hopefully someone who is up on this stuff can advise as i cant seem to find this specific info on the DVLA site. In the past i have called the DVLA to ask these questions but they have given me false information on the phone in error and fined me for their errors.

Thanks Ian

Wait until you have the v5 then sorn it, also send the tax back to claim a refund.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Just a DVLA question to avoid a fine again Reply with quote
Black Sheep wrote:
It is worth noting that some insurance companies will withdraw and cancel issuance (without telling you) if your vehicle has been SORNed

Not that I'm doubting it, but how are you supposed to buy VED if you can't insure a SORNed vehicle? Thinking
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dydey90
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You have to have insurance to get an MOT.
You have to have an MOT to get tax.

My last bike was sat neglected in the garage for around 3-4 months after the tax disc expired until I got a snotty not through the door about it though. They do give you that bit of notice to either SORN or tax it, it's not just an insta-fine.
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stinkwheel
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You are committing an offence right now by being in posession of an uninsured motor vehicle.

Complete the SORN declaration with the date you took posession of the vehicle and send it off now.

Not sure what happens about the tax but the insurance one gives you no "grace period" and posession (not even using) of an uninsured vehicle is an absolute offence, they'll send you out a £100 fixed penalty if they think they can.
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Minty
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dydey90 wrote:
You have to have insurance to get an MOT.


Since when?
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minty wrote:
Dydey90 wrote:
You have to have insurance to get an MOT.


Since when?


Alright, you could shove it in a van, but I daresay most people actually ride it to the garage?
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P.addy
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Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
People ride without insurance too... but no, MOT is an MOT, nothing else is required.
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minty wrote:
Dydey90 wrote:
You have to have insurance to get an MOT.
Since when?

Since if you ride the bike to the MOT place you need insurance to do that. You then need the MOT to get the tax disc.

So you can insurance a bike without a MOT and tax. So that'd include a bike on SORN. If anyone says you can't then they're wrong.
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can insure a bike whenever... but that new law shitter means it needs tax. Surely SORN won't count.
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:
... that new law shitter means it needs tax. Surely SORN won't count.

If it has tax then it needs to be insured. However, if no tax then it needs to be on SORN. If on SORN it does not need insurance (as it's not on the road - unless it's parked on the road Doh! ) but it can have insurance so you can ride for an MOT or if the tax is still valid.

I have to admit I'm not sure if you declare SORN if that invalidates an existing tax disc. I understand you may return it for a refund of any outstanding amount. However, I understand this is your choice.

So as I understand it you could declare SORN on for example a damaged bike with no insurance but a valid tax disc. Then fix the bike, get insurance and get MOT in the period while the tax disc still valid for bike. Anyone? Confused
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 25 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
I have to admit I'm not sure if you declare SORN if that invalidates an existing tax disc.

It's not a tax disc, it's the "vehicle license". Again: the physical disc is not a receipt or evidence that you have a license, it is the actual license. If you have it, then your vehicle is licensed. There's literally no other way for you to prove that if push comes to shove.

map wrote:
So as I understand it you could declare SORN on for example a damaged bike with no insurance but a valid tax disc. Then fix the bike, get insurance and get MOT in the period while the tax disc still valid for bike. Anyone? Confused

I'd do it.

By the way, I skimmed the OP's post and didn't spot that the bike wasn't insured. As stinkwheel says (and knows from Magistrate's court Sad ) this means that SORN isn't optional, it needs to be done ASAP or preferably in the past.

If you do it by post (and you may have without the document number from the V5C) then do get at least at least free certificate of posting, if not recorded delivery. Interpretations Act is not sufficient as a defence to the continuous insurance laws - they wrote in a workaround requiring the defendant to prove their innocence.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 13 years, 4 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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