What about a WR200?

[Fladdem]

I have seen a Yamaha WR200 at a dealership having its price drop for months, it keeps catching my eye.

I wonder whether it would fill the same role as my TTR, offroad do everything play bike. Theoretically it should be reliable as it's based on the DT.

It is catching my eye as I want something more than my TTR, lighter, more oomph, without being too scary. I'm sad to say I am a teenager that is actually trying to hold back on power. I want a two stroke next, this looks like it is taller than my TTR as well, which is handy, I'm 6 foot 4ish.

Basically, what are people's opinion on this bike, I believe parts may be hard to find, but then if it weren't for Brian at Totally TTR parts for my bike would be hard to get.

Can the bike it do everything i.e. motocross practise, enduro practise, green laning, playing at the weekend with my mates on their road going bikes, maybe trips further afield, minus commuting, the push bike does that, this will be a toy. Well, with a list like that I might as well commute. Being a two stroke would fuel economy be seriously affected? Could I expect about 50mpg?

Any help while I weigh it up would be much appreciated, Adam.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

I'm not up on it personally.

However, based on a quick google, I'd suspect it will struggle at motocross and be lacking in sparkle for enduro.

I'd consider a CRM250 as a bike with some accessibility of parts which can handle more road use. They may be a little heavier, but not much - generally I wouldn't go for a trail bike for for motocross - while a proper competition enduro 2 stroke is light and peppy enough for motocross use.

Personally, I'd go for something like a KTM EXC/Gas Gas EC, then look to get some other cheap road bike for that side.
The enduro 2 strokes are not only incredibly capable off road, as light as you can reasonably get, but parts are generally easily interchangeable with quite a wide range of models. While KTM prices can be a bit high, they partly keep their value because they're so popular. And popular means good availability of parts too.
Saying that, should be able to get one from around the turn of the millennium for a grand or so tax and test if you keep an eye out. Newer you get, lighter they get.

[Fladdem]

I hear that it's very akin to a KDX200, which I was thinking of next as well.

I do consider the CRM 250 a fair bit. The only thing is it's quite short. I would like an EXC200 or the Gas Gas EC200 but it's the price and lack of road manners that puts me off. If I can ever finish off my H100 powered MT50 project, not even started yet, then I don't need to do so many road miles on the bike.

I'd like a two stroke next but it has to fill the same role as the TTR, which is why I understand why you said the CRM.

My TTR has gone round a motocross track a few times but I don't jump it a lot. Although it was more on a whim, if I do go it's always with my boss and he just got an end of line 2013 CRF250R which is VERY fast, more so than his old 2007 RMZ250, which if I really wanted to do MX he said I could have for a reasonable price.

I really struggle to decide, I like my bike but it has never made me love it, from when I bought it I knew that it would be a stepping stone and that is all. I could throw money at it, getting suspension done, after market exhausts, big bore kits, but it will still be a ttr. This is why I want another bike. Another problem is I have just got re-insured on it, for £350 and I don't want to waste the money and then pay the same again as well as transferring the insurance.

I just struggle with decisions,
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

I wouldn't get stuck on the 200 size particularly. I do like the 200 competition bikes because they are stupidly light but still reasonably frisky. However, generally I think the 200s and 250s in trail bikes are about the same weight.
So consider the KDX250.

I know you said 2 stroke and it's my preference; but consider a KLX300 too. They are fairly light, but still reasonable for road/trail use I believe. Engine isn't going to be up to modern levels, but is supposed to be reasonably frisky for it's size. Believe they are a chunk lighter than the XRs and the like.

[Fladdem]

I'm not stuck on the 200 size but it seems like a good compromise between a 250 and 125, I don't have the balls for a 250 and 125s are a bit peaky. Athough I remember you saying once on another topic that the EXC 200 was peakier than the 144.

Four strokes are obviously easier to ride, I should know, my TTR makes me look I have a tiny bit of skill. I'm not all that fussed about which engine to have, nor am I too bothered about weight, I'm not a professional no matter if I rode an EXC300 I still couldn't make the most of it, or be any faster than on an XR400 or something.

I do like the KLX 300, I think of it as maybe the next bike in the chain of progression, it's what I want really. Lighter, more powerful, similar spec engine, i.e. low maintenance or under stressed. However it is meant to be short, although I still dwarf that RMZ250 so I am just going to have to put up with it.

My boss even said I could get the 250 and make it road legal and set up for enduro, but it's maintenance is a little but much for me at the moment. Also like all MX bikes, a close ratio box with a tall first gear.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

That's the thing my 200 was a bit peakier than the 144, which was specifically altered to be flat. Some 200s do seem to be peaky, others are very flat.
The power delivery tends to be related to it's intended use more than the size.
The enduro 250s and 300s tend to be very flat - you need much bigger balls to ride the 200 I had, I'd say. The 300 had loads of low down power and could just be chugged around. The 200 would bog if it was in too high a gear, knock it down and it'd take off when you hit the power band.

Motocross bikes tend to be set up in a much more peaky manner - as with the close ratio gearbox you're always on it.

The 144 of mine was a SX coverted to XC spec - so it was a motocross bike converted for enduro use. The XC you buy from KTM is the same - it has the motocross suepsnion and gearbox. So it's intended for shorter course enduro work - however I didn't find the closer ratio gear box to be an issue doing the Hafren rally - the steep and tight stuff was fine - and my nerve ran out before the revs in top gear.

[stevo as b4]

The WR200 is about the same as a KDX200 or TS200R. Great bike for trail and clubman enduro use, but it is rare and was not produced for too long. It's also quite similar to the DT200WR and shares the 35bhp motor, with a tallish and decently suspended chassis. Engine parts are probably not going to be a problem. WR200 specific parts may be hard to find like older YZ stuff for example.

As other's have said a 200 or 250cc makes little difference and neither is better than the other. Id chose an Enduro bike for it chassis and lightness over the engine size or spec and how popular it is. The RMX250, KDX250R and CRM250 would all be just as good bikes, the KLX300R is good too, but needs a lot more looking after id say.

I had a WR200 spit me off on an off road day when I looped it, and it was easy to pick up and re-start once the fuel had stopped pissing out of the carb. Despite this I found the WR250F I road later was so much nicer to ride and it really flatter's a novice, so much so that if I got back into serious trail riding id love one in my garage!

[G]

I was under the impression the RMX250 was more of a competition bike along the lines of the KTM EXCs? While the CRM and KDX were a bit more 'trail'?

Ridden a mid-90s RMX and it was very competent.
Had been riding my DR600 and hopping on to the 2 stroke it was noticeable how much flatter the power delivery was, with more go from low down (ok, it was going to be geared a bit lower too).

But again, on all that - I still reckon two bikes would be a better bet.
Something like said DR600 will be better for any distance stuff, but still handles trails fine if you've got a bit of experience.
Then a light weight smoker for the 'serious' stuff as well as trails nearer by.

[stevo as b4]

Maybe the RMX is a bit more EXC like, but they are similarly specced to a KDX250R if not a CRM250 which is a bit more of an in between compromise of trail and Enduro, but a brilliant compromise none the less!

For what the OP wants I can't see any real downsides to a CRM other than cost, and they are very moddable for making them more like the other bikes, and have a pretty awesomely reliable 2T motor with probably the best and most problem free powervalve system of all the Jap bikes.

[stevo as b4]

Oh an if I had some decent ability I would actually enjoy the challenge of riding a heavier 600cc thumper for the off road stuff, as I've seen good riders manhandle bikes like XL600R's around trials course's where clubmen on fancy Beta's and Montessa 315R's have got into a right old mess!

To be able to ride tight wooded sections on a big thumper reasonably well would give anyone some serious man points!

[G]

The RMX is listed at 113kg, the CRM at 123kg.
Seems the KDX is around the RMX weight - and apparantly actually used an earlier KX (motocross) lump, bit with a stronger chassis.

And again, on the reliability, I often suspect that a more powerful bike only used to the power levels of a less powerful one may be just as reliable. Thus I would expect the (de)tuning of the KX engine to make it flatter with a bit less top end and a bigger flywheel etc will likely make it a chunk more reliable, despite it being an aggressive competition engine.

[Fladdem]

Thanks, for all of that. I often consider the RMX 250, as it can be had for fairly cheap. If I had kept my Varadero, I would be in a much better position to pick a bike for fun, i.e. not so worried about maintenance schedules due to lots of tarmac work.

Having said that my mate bought a 2012 EXC125 and uses it daily for college. He has done 2000 miles on it, bare minimum of maintenace and it's still going strong as ever. It makes me cringe watching him at a fuel station, he puts the fuel in and then just squeezes the two stroke bottle, no measuring what so ever. But I suppose that's what it's like when mummy pays for everything. For a serious competition machiine, it's pretty reliable I'd say.

I'm not that bothered about two or four stroke, i'd like a two stroke but like someone said a wr250F is fantastic. I nearly bought one before my TTR, the bloke even let me take it round his little enduro track, it was a stonker and he wanted 1100 for it, I was a fool to turn it down, he had owned it from new, 2004, and had used it 9 times. He was retired, I know it's true because he worked in the garage next to mine and was very close friends with my boss. In fact my boss said to go round and make him an offer for it because he knew it wasn't being used, although things happened and I couldn't buy it, but obviously I put the idea of selling it in his head because it was gone a week later.

I have seen a CRM 250 engine stuffed in a CRF chassis, that would have been ideal, I think. I'm not too fussed about weight really, it would be nice to have a lighter bike than my TTR though. I looked at DRZ400E specs, and dry they actually weigh 3kgs less than mine, however, they hold more fluids, but then again the extra power may disguise that weight a bit while moving, although picking it up would show the weight, and I am picking bikes up a lot. I think maybe just save up a bit more dosh and wait for my 33bhp limit to expire and have another look then for a bike.

Thanks for the info.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

I'd expect the a KTM 2 stroke to require overall less work than the WR250F.

The thing to do for premixing is get a babies bottle and mark out the amount on the side in litres of fuel, then you can easily measure the correct amount.

[Fladdem]

He cleans the air filter when he feels like it and the same with the gearbox oil, no schedule to it at all, still the same piston

I do understand what you are saying though, no valves to adjust, no cam chain to tension. No oil filter to replace. Just change out the gear box oil, make sure the air filter's clean and swap the piston when it needs doing, maybe de-coke some stuff when it needs it.

I often thought that something like that would make it easy to work out the premix.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

First off, someone on the KTM forum had a 2002 200EXC for £750 - sold now, as you might expect.
It was road registered, though SORN and MOT just run out.

On that, reminded me of the 200 EGS which is autolube. Was available from 98-02 or something. Basically just a KTM200 with the autolube bits added.

[Fladdem]

Thanks, that autolube model sounds quite interesting, should be easier while out and about.

I've just thrown a load of money at my TTR, I was just going to change the cam cover gasket, because it was leaking, and it turned into one of those jobs where things keep needing to be replaced and improved, so I am going to keep it for a bit longer to try to recoup some of the money. Maybe the bit of extra oomph may be there if it actually has some compression.

I will bear all this in mind though when I am more serious about moving on.

Thanks.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[stevo as b4]

What can't the TTR do already that you need in your next dirtbike?

I imagine for the trails, and fun off road use, even for beginner Enduro use it would cope well enough? I've seen People enter std DT/MTX125's into one day enduro's and have fun on them.

Regarding the autolube, there are loads of posts on here from me saying I only wanted 2stroke bikes with pump fed lube, but I'm now a convert to pre-mixing and it takes just seconds extra at fuel stops.

I use small container's that hold exactly the right amount of oil for 5L of petrol. On my KMX I'm happy to stop after every 5L of fuel for a re-fill and rest my arse. The tank holds 9.3L so if I doubled the dose on bone dry tank I wouldn't be too far out anyway.

My next project will be to convert the oil tank (still in situ) with a small tap to fill up my dosing container. The other way would be to have a spirit's measure fitted to the tank, which would be pretty cool if it was small enough not to get in the way!

[G]

I did my first enduro, which was a pretty tight and VERY muddy one on my KTM 690.
But I certainly have more fun on a light weight 2 stroke.

Could always make some kind of small electric pump where you punch in the litres and dispenses it straight in to your tank .

[stevo as b4]

Damn you, I might spend all night looking on the web for info about flow rates per sec on screen washer pumps now.

I'd be happy to do a first enduro on a WR250F, as the WR200 hitting the powerband by accident as I landed badly from a jump had kind of put me off hard hitting strokers in the mud at least.

Would a KTM690 be better on say wet clay for finding some grip?

[Fladdem]

There is nothing wrong with my TTR, I can not ride it to its full potential. I just wanted a change.

I have raced her once, we came 3rd from last, but it wasn't the bikes fault, I kept falling off from lack of skill, I'd had the bike for 2 weeks and had a bet with my mate that I would lose, I didn't. I won a tenner!

My head keeps telling me that now is the best time to keep it, I've just got used to it properly, so now I should learn to ride it. But my heart is saying that as I've got used to it, I should move up, which is ridiculous.

So long as I never try to do more than 40mph off-road the bike is fine, but I think suspension set up is a thing that all bikes need doing to them.

But, I have a fresh piston on the way, the Wossner 263 kit, an FMF Q4, a shorty header and various bits, the forks should be off to the shop later this week.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.