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The 80's are back turbo charged Suzuki maybe ?

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sidewinder
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 29 Oct 2013    Post subject: The 80's are back turbo charged Suzuki maybe ? Reply with quote

I like but I bet it don't make it into production Very Happy

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/suzuki-recursion-concept-turbo/

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reed
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PostPosted: 23:56 - 29 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turbo charged bike that results in the same power as a litre bike, but only runs a single front brake. Laughing
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Last edited by reed on 00:06 - 30 Oct 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last time Suzuki tried turbo charging, it was on the same pretext of heavy weight performance from a middle weight bike and gave us the XN85, which was about as popular as a ham sandwich at a Bar Mitzvah.

Their design team must have very short memories, or be gluttons for punishment.
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Cheeseybeaner
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PostPosted: 00:09 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see how it would be worthwhile if it offered good fuel economy with the added efficiency, who wouldn't want great top end performance and unusually good fuel economy.
Everything I've read about production turbocharged bikes they made in the 80s though seems to go on about the amount of lag they get and the fact that bikes aren't necessarily suited to the sort of stepped power delivery you get with turbo's which supposedly would be something they'd want to overcome if they produced a new model.
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reed
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheeseybeaner wrote:
I can see how it would be worthwhile if it offered good fuel economy with the added efficiency, who wouldn't want great top end performance and unusually good fuel economy.
Everything I've read about production turbocharged bikes they made in the 80s though seems to go on about the amount of lag they get and the fact that bikes aren't necessarily suited to the sort of stepped power delivery you get with turbo's which supposedly would be something they'd want to overcome if they produced a new model.


I have read that a lot of the old turbo bikes got written off by being ridden round a corner just as the boost kicks in Laughing

don't know the truth behind this though.
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe now that we have TC and what not Turbo's could work??

I doubt this one will ever make it though
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one every buys a bike for economy, we all want performance. We want the bike to respond to the twist grip and not waiting for a turbo to kick in. Turbos do have a place in biking but that is in straight lining and even then a supercharger delivers more.
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G
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: The 80's are back turbo charged Suzuki maybe ? Reply with quote

The B-King was going to be supercharged.

The weight of a 1000 is not specifically related to the size.
It is related to the power.
Bigger bang of course needs a bit stronger cylinder.
But also needs a stronger gearbox, drive train and the like.
Then there's the cat's in the exhaust that have to expel the gasses and so on.
I suspect adding a turbo may well add more weight than the current difference between a 600 and a 1000 engine.

For fuel economy on a smaller bike, it could be interesting.
But as ever, not worth it for the person that actually cares about cheap riding for a good many years.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reed wrote:
Cheeseybeaner wrote:
I can see how it would be worthwhile if it offered good fuel economy with the added efficiency, who wouldn't want great top end performance and unusually good fuel economy.
Everything I've read about production turbocharged bikes they made in the 80s though seems to go on about the amount of lag they get and the fact that bikes aren't necessarily suited to the sort of stepped power delivery you get with turbo's which supposedly would be something they'd want to overcome if they produced a new model.


I have read that a lot of the old turbo bikes got written off by being ridden round a corner just as the boost kicks in Laughing

don't know the truth behind this though.


I've owned a GPZ750 turbo and ridden the other offerings from the Big 4 and they weren't that bad, or no worse than any other bike, in that you have to be in the right gear for the situation.

Where they failed was that they gave the performance of a big engine, but ony if you kept it spinning, so you have to get used to being in a lower gear than normal, then running out of revs very quickly, a bit like a tuned 2 stroke; trouble is, you don't buy a 4 stroke for that sort of performance.

For a road bike, I could see a small turbo working really well on something like an NC700, where you could gain some extra top end, without sacrificing too much economy and having to spend all your time tap dancing on the gear lever.
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bladerunner
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PostPosted: 01:40 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be interesting with more modern variable vane turbos and electronics...maybe 600's could have much more mid range than they do now but still get that top end power they need to sell well...could make a better day to day bike that's for sure....it's not like they do great mpg anyhow!
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G
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea; modern car turbos don't really suffer particularly from turbo lag or lack of midrange; at least the ones you get on stock cars.
Now rather than being the super-fast cars that have them, it's often the eco-friendly easy-drive ones that do.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 02:07 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Yea; modern car turbos don't really suffer particularly from turbo lag or lack of midrange; at least the ones you get on stock cars.
Now rather than being the super-fast cars that have them, it's often the eco-friendly easy-drive ones that do.


That's what I was thinking with my suggestion of an NC700.

The best turbo applications I've experienced are modern diesels with auto or fast shifting semi auto gearboxes, like the high output DSG VWs, where you can wack up and down the box with the minimum of effort/brain power.

I don't see it as the revolutionary future of motorcycling, but it could appeal to a significant number of buyers.
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G
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PostPosted: 02:19 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always liked the idea of the jetforce scooter.
Something like that, but on a 'proper' bike and with the 'charger set for economy when at 15hp, but with option to get 20-25hp, so you can keep up with traffic nicely when legally allowed to.
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Cheeseybeaner
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariel Badger wrote:
No one every buys a bike for economy, we all want performance. We want the bike to respond to the twist grip and not waiting for a turbo to kick in. Turbos do have a place in biking but that is in straight lining and even then a supercharger delivers more.


Not sure that that's true. In fact it seems a lot of the makers are expanding their economy bike ranges given our dire financial situation at present, I don't see why someone would dislike having extra fuel economy while retaining higher performance.
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G
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 30 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't see why someone would be buying a new bike for economy.
But people do, so it's a sector they'll certainly be looking in to, I'm sure.
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Cheeseybeaner
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose some people simply like new things, maybe they trust them more than secondhand? Perhaps if you keep a vehicle long enough and cover enough miles on it it making full use of the warranty it makes sense? Either way it gives us plenty of discounted choice on the second hand market!
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G
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously some do.
The 'if you do lots of miles' thing if anything seems contrary to me, though I've heard it a lot.
If I'm just going to do 3000 miles a year for a couple of years, a new bike is going to stay fairly 'new'.
But if I'm expecting to do 50k miles on that bike, why spend twice as much on a 0 mile one when a 5000 mile one will will only have 10% extra miles on it when you're finished?

But yes, I quite agree; if everyone was like me, there'd be no cheap bikes for me to buy - so shouldn't moan too much about other people taking the massive hit in depreciation Very Happy.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 01:51 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariel Badger wrote:
No one every buys a bike for economy, we all want performance.

That's not true.

Ariel Badger wrote:
We want the bike to respond to the twist grip and not waiting for a turbo to kick in.

That is true.
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G
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PostPosted: 02:05 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariel Badger wrote:
We want the bike to respond to the twist grip and not waiting for a turbo to kick in.

Ah wait; I just realised...
Plenty of people these days are paying near-new bike prices for bikes with exactly this sort of power delivery that would have cost a grand a few years ago.
Then there's the new Ducati, which has a similar power curve to a RS250, just with massively more of it everywhere!
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bladerunner
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PostPosted: 02:05 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh!!!! A 125 cc super charger available from the scrap yard.....I feel a pit bike project on the cards in the near future!
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 02:25 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Ariel Badger wrote:
We want the bike to respond to the twist grip and not waiting for a turbo to kick in.

Ah wait; I just realised...
Plenty of people these days are paying near-new bike prices for bikes with exactly this sort of power delivery that would have cost a grand a few years ago.


To be fair, that's a slightly different conversation.

People are paying all sorts in the name of nostalgia and financial speculation, for bikes that often weren't all that when they were new and couldn't hold a candle to a modern bike of a similar style and price.
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G
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PostPosted: 02:33 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought part of it, at least, was the enjoyment of riding them.

Certainly if they didn't cost so much these days, I'd love to have various of them. If I had lots and lots of money, it's quite likely I'd spend some on a 2 stroke road bike purely for the riding enjoyment.

Of course, I sold all mine off cheap Rolling Eyes.

I have no particular 'nostalgia' value for them. But then I won't be paying lots for one either!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 31 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
For a road bike, I could see a small turbo working really well on something like an NC700, where you could gain some extra top end, without sacrificing too much economy and having to spend all your time tap dancing on the gear lever.

Given that it claims exactly 35kW to match the new A2 category, I rather suspect that there's already more in there past the 6500rpm limiter.

I'm mildly surprised that nobody seems to have bothered figuring out how to remove it, but it may just be that there's little interest in that kind of shenanigans in its target market.
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