Cause of cyclist deaths

[dn38416]

Apparently there's been a rash of cyclist deaths in London in the last few days and trying to pin it on the mayor not throwing money at it quick enough. I was just wondering whether there was any study of the cause of cyclist deaths.

I wouldn't want to sound like a cager, but I would expect a lot of the deaths to be the fault of the cyclist. I used to ride in London, but understood that i was basically invisible to the traffic and ride accordingly - rather than live in a first-best bubble and say "they should see me, i will do what i like". I would also expect a lot of the casualties to not be car drivers, which might feed into their not making the right observations,...., or not understanding why undertaking a HGV on a left turn is a risky idea.

[Of course, the danger is more legislation for people who want to get from A to B.]

[Christoffee]

I walk the length of Gray's Inn Road everyday to work, and while it's not a particularly hairy road, cyclists jump red lights across junctions every day.
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Bike: CBF125

[arry]

It's almost invariably a case of up the inside of a hgv and the lights change and they run out of space at exactly the point they're totally invisible or it's pulling up right in front of a high cab vehicle where again they're totally impossible to see unless you've got the right mirrors

There's been a number of initiatives to stop these things happening such as signs on rear of trucks saying don't pass on inside, warning buzzers saying truck turning left, proximity sensors etc. The thing that would stop the most deaths would be for some cyclists to wake up to the inevitable danger of doing such things

[Polarbear]

Cyclists should take responsibility for themselves. Most do and ride sensibly but some are accidents and liability's waiting to happen.

There is one who gets off the same train as me in evenings. I've followed him out of the car park. He rides through red lights at pelican crossings. Straight onto roundabouts without looking. I'd like to run the bastard over.

The ones at night with no lights, somehow you are meant to sense their presence.

Then theres the one that scraped down the side of my car, refused to stop when I shouted at him.

In fact, lets ban cyclists ( for their own safety of course)
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[doggone]

Are they related to dark evenings?
Even in daylight, they can very difficult to see in a rainy mirror or side window and are silent too.

[1198]

Can't help but feel that some cyclists (I'm one myself) deliberately provoke situations. There is obviously a potential pinch point / problem ahead but they ride in anyhow. Yes, technically they may have been right, but it would have been as easy to avoid the situation as not. Then they insist on giving the other vehicle's driver a lecture on his or her wrongdoings, on situations that had no effect on their life. Try you tubing SMIDSY. There's some on there who seem to actively look for trouble. Don't they realise if you get knocked off a push bike YOU will lose. Being dead but right is no good. You're still dead!

[arry]

[Fisty]

[1198]

[Vincent]

Is it mainly the experienced riders....the ones that jump red lights, use the pavement etc that are getting wiped out...or the novice riders, the ones that don't know what to look out for, don't ride close to the kerb, don't use lights etc?
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[map]

[treeno]

[sabian92]

[Teflon-Mike]

Braking Dynamics:
Brakes are motors in reverse; they take 'kinetic energy' and through friction turn it into heat, which they waste to atmospheric air.

The 'power' of a brake then is the same as that of an engine; 'rate of energy transfer'; or how fast they turn kinetic energy into heat (rather than an engine doing it the other way around).

Now the relevant bit; how quick you can stop depends on how much force the tyre can take without skidding. This is a function of grip.

How much 'grip' you have; depends on the co-efficient of friction between the tyre and the road, times the 'clamping force' or weight pushing the tyre into the road.

Co-Efficient of friction is pretty much a constant for tyre/surface combination.

Perfect grip 100% would mean you could sustain as much braking force as you had gravitational force; ie 1G.

Now; dissipating Kenitic Energy; That is the energy of motion; and is Mass times velocity squared.

Hence, the faster you go, proportionally the more kinetic energy you are carrying; so the more energy you have to 'waste' to slow down through braking.

You have a two ton 4x4... you are carrying a heck of a lot more Kinetic energy, your brakes HAVE to be that much more powerful to dissipate it.

You have a 25Kg push bike.... you dont NEED bludg great disks to handle that much 'energy'!

Meanwhile, in either instance, due to the exponential of MV^2 ALL vehicles slow more quickly the slower they are going. Regardless of thier mass.

Couple that to the fact that the theoretical maximum braking force is 1G due to grip... and you find that the 'shortest stopping distances' quoted in the Highway code, that haven't changed in sixty years..... are still, NOT FAR OFF... they have always been a little concervative...

BUT the suggestion that 'modern cars' with fat, low profile radial tyres, servo assisted ABS brakes, and all the other 'advances' can stop in SO much shorter distance... IS actually NOT TRUE! Laws of physics haven't changed! Stopping distances haven't changed.

And a 25Kg push-bike on 2" tyres will take as long to slow from 15mph as a 250Kg motorcycle on 6" tyres or a 2,500Kg SUV on 10" tyres! Give or take not a bludy lot.

Whether the driver/rider cocks it up in the process, and locks up or not... THAT is another matter!

Meanwhile; as for study's and stats... go check the office of statistics at UK.Gov. They publish all their road transport surveys and stats at quarterly and yearly intervals; aprox 18months in retard of collation. Last set I looked at were for 2010, they are probably about half way through the 2011 stats by now. I did have some somewhere but cant find them. I think it was 403 Motorcycle fatalities in 2010; cycling deaths ISTR were 'lower' but whether that was in total or by miles I dont know; Do remember that the official figures suggested that cycling, per mile, was SLIGHTLY safer than motorcycling.... but HOW THE FUCK DO THEY NOW?!?!? I mean; they can estimate the number of road-legal motorcycle miles traveled each year with some degree of confidence; motorbikes have to have an MOT and MOT Men record the displyed vehicle mileage... be a bit out from swapped clocks and stuff, but they have SOME Idea about how many miles motorbikes do.... who measures how many miles folk do on a push-bike?!!?
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[lihp]

[pepperami]

[lihp]

[arry]

[J4mes]

Fucking Lol'd at that Vlogger.

"fucking twat"

"arrggghhhhhhhgaaahhh"




N918 AHD, I salute you!

[G]

The issue with braking, I'd suggest, is both the high centre of gravity and the choice of bikes with not-so-great brakes.

One of the reasons I went for a hybrid with disc brakes; it'll lift the rear if needed. (Ok, it does also have an extra 10mm of tyre, but in decent conditions it should be the brakes and centre of gravity that are limiting.)

In the video where the car stopped, of course the cyclists could have avoided the situation by dropping back as two wrongs don't make a right etc.
However, nice outcome getting them prosecuted.
Of course, that situation could have come out a lot worse for both individuals.

[Rogerborg]

[Quornholio]

[pepperami]

[map]

[scorps]

hmm falls off bike at nearly 0mph and lies on the pavement, Ive seen 3 year olds come off tricycles harder and jump straight back on.
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