How to make a hole in the wall for a new water supply pipe?

[stinkwheel]

I've got a new pipe 25mm plastic pipe but I need to take it into the house.

They won't connect up to my old one because it might freeze (despite this never having happened in the last 50 years).

So, to conform with regs, I need to put a 100mm diameter piece of conduit through the house wall at a depth of 750mm then up and into the kitchen.

I can make a hole in the outside wall no problem (assuming the house wall actually goes down that far).

The floor is wood then a maybe 6" air gap then dirt. I have a VERY expensive floor covering which I would rather not be damaging to lift floorboards (it's marmoleum which is glued onto marine ply which in turn is glued onto the floor, it's sealed, watertight and built up the walls so the kitchen can be entirely flooded without damage).

I am prepared to drill up to a 6" hole in the floor but not much more than that. I am prepared to spend a fair bit of time getting this right to avoid damaging the floor.

How should I do it?

I'm thinking I should make a hole in the wall/founds big enough to get my hand in then try to tunnel, bash and howk my way through the dirt floor until I have a big enough hole to shove the ducting up against the bottom of the floor. Then drill a 25mm hole where it hits.

Am I barking up the right tree here?

Also, ducting. Just 100mm white plastic waste pipe? Or is there something out there a bit easier/better to work with? Maybe something a bit more bendable?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Pete.]

How thick is the wall and what's it made from?
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stinkwheel]

[mentalboy]

Is the feed entering your room in some obscure spot? ie. Behind kitchen units, scullery, boiler room? I wouldn't have thought you'd want a rising main in your living room!
Your 4" conduit can be any material you desire - if you want something bendy then the type of hose used for tumbler dryers is fine. As you've said the biggest problem will be tunnelling up through the soil inside the building - you could just ream a 25mm hole vertically downwards through the floor with a long masonry bit, if the material is soft it'll create a nice funnel when it hits your 4" conduit, if not you could move the bit around once you've hit full depth to create a funnel shape.

'Why do I need a funnel shape?' you ask - Have you ever tried bending mains feed pipe at right angles??? You'd also have to speak very nicely to the chaps laying the pipe (unless you're doing it yourself!) and feed it from inside to outside - that way you could get a second pair of hands to encourage the pipe round the bend where it enters the conduit.

A simpler method would be to cut a small hole in your beloved flooring, carefully. If the pipe enters some daft place in the house you'll be wanting to box it in. If it's entering under the lounge, for example, and then going under the floor to some useful place then the following may sound iffy and lots of work but will save floor damage.

Your hole has to a minimum of 100mm, if it were me I'd get down to the required depth from the outside then create a larger hole through which you can tunnel easily using a crowbar or similar and brick up afterwards leaving my requisite conduit size - you wouldn't need a huge hole just something a brick or two larger!
This would require a reasonable size access hole on the outside, no good digging a post hole down 750mm or you wouldn't be able to work through the walls.
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Make mine a Corona.

[mentalboy]

Afterthought!!!

When the pipe is laid I presume that at some stage it will leave your property and enter public land (footpath?) to the main?
Leave the trench at the boundary open and enough pipe to reach the meter/stopcock, you will almost certainly find that the ridiculously short distance from your boundary to the main will have to be done by contractors from the water board - 'any old Joe' is not permitted to dig up a pavement or hook into a main/meter.
Insist that these contractors use the excess pipe to connect, as most of these monkeys will cut the pipe at the boundary and use a joint, creating possible leakage potential in the future!!
____________________
Make mine a Corona.

[Pete.]

Last one of these I did was a 127mm hole straight down 1200mm through concrete footing to meet up with a hole they dug under the wall footing from a trench. Reason it was so deep was the floor level inside the property was raised up a lot from outside.

If you're running a new 25mm alkathene in then you must have a trench up to the wall already. It'll need to be widened so you can work under the wall but as you're only going 3-400mm in from the wall face it'll won't be too bad.

I would select my material first, taking heed of what mentalboy says about putting a bend in the alkathene, and I'd get down to 750 in the trench and bust a hole through the wall/footing big enough to poke the duct through with the bend attached. I don't know what regs require when you are insde the wall, but if you don't need ducting all the way up inside I'd put a hole in the floor, drill or rod down to the tunnel then grab a spare length of alkatene, push it straight down, grab from below and pull the end into the trench. where you can get some push and pull then push the ducting into place. Un-roll the incoming pipe as best you can and feed the ducting over it, splice it onto the scrap end which is poking out the wall then push and pull it through with someone's help inside. When you've finished you should have the duct loose in the hole you made and the pipe passing through it and up through a small hole in the floor. Foam the top end and make the wall good. On inspection, it'll look like the duct turns up and they won't be able to see that you went through the dirt with the pipe.

If regs do require that the duct turn upwards and clear the dirt, you're going to have to drill the hole in the floor big enough for it, or buy three joiners, rod out a huge hole working through the floor and clearing the dirt from the trench below then build your vertical element from short pieces and joiners. It'll be a cowson of a job though.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stinkwheel]

I managed to find a copy of the diagram showing exactly what United Utilities want.

It's a total PITA but they WILL connect it up to the mains for free if my end complies.

Obviously, this costs them money so they are making me jump through hoops in the hope I'll give up and go away.

Happily, I got a guy in a mini-digger to do my trench so there is a fairly big hole to work from.

I have also considered faking it up by recessing a short piece of conduit into the outside of the wall with a bit of alkathene sticking into it and sealing it up, then having a second piece of alkathene sticking up out of the floor with a stopcock on the end for them to look at.

When they hook up their end, it's too late, I can connect onto the existing pipe, fill in the hole and stamp it down hard with a slab on top so they can't see.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[mentalboy]

Ordinarily your conduit would finish above the soil level, personally I wouldn't have it touching your flooring or joists but if that's what they want!
Will your stopcock be at the shortest distance possible inside your wall or are you running it along the top of the soil through to another entry point in the floor? If short and sweet just go with corrugated pipe used for tumble driers, it'll bend with your pipe along it's length. A can of builders spray foam should suffice as sealant for either end.
____________________
Make mine a Corona.

[stinkwheel]

As far as I am concerned, the bit marked "Any distance" on said diagram will be as small as humanly possible.

I've not worked with alkethene pipe much before.

Just thinking. If I make the trench next to where it's going in the wall a bit deeper than the point the hole will be, I should be able to take the pipe up towards the hole in the wall at an angle meaning it's got less bending to do to become vertical.

Or is that a stupid idea?

Could I use black corrougated field drain pipe for the ducting? Or does it have to be watertight?
https://www.mjabbottdirect.co.uk/assets/ItemImages/LDRAINCOIL100050AGRI.jpg
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[mentalboy]

IMHO - Theoretically speaking a perforated pipe should be no different in it's usage here than a sealed unit, it is not as though you are disturbing any damp proof courses. The undersides of the floor will be subjected to no more damp than the diagram above indicates.

However, it may be worthwhile trawling the net for building regs specs, unless anyone out there knows better?
____________________
Make mine a Corona.

[Pete.]

[stinkwheel]

I'm going to have to get someone from United Utilities out to look at this job anyway.

Far as I can see from measuring up, 750mm below ground level is going to be below the level of the foundations. The existing water pipe is about 300mm down. I've got a hole close to 500mm down which corresponds to the lowest course of bricks.

Needs either someone with common sense or someone lazy and not an arbitrary book of building regs.

Getting them to send someone is going to be the tricky bit. I may have to offer to pay them.

I don't know why they are being so anal about it anyway. They are constantly at pains to point out that if anything after the meter freezes, bursts, leaks or in any other way malfunctions, it is entirely my responsability. If it's my responsability, why are they so bothered about how it's done?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Wobbling Dog]

dunt forget your bonding !

[mentalboy]