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| arkolly |
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arkolly
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| esullivan |
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esullivan
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 Posted: 07:38 - 22 Nov 2013  Post subject: |
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Here's a web page for you (first hit when I did a Google search  )
https://www.gov.uk/rules-motorcyclists-83-to-88/motorcycle-licence-requirements
I just glanced over it, but it looks like you will be able to ride a 50cc moped when you are 16. At 17, you can ride a 125cc.
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arkolly
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esullivan
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c_dug
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dydey90
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 08:35 - 22 Nov 2013  Post subject: |
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To be fair, that page is wank. It jumps around and doesn't spell out exactly what you can do each time you blow out the candles on your birthday cake, which is what actually matters to young riders.
So, yes, as above.
At 16, you can do a CBT and then ride a moped up to 50cc and a ridiculous 45kph "design speed". You would really be better off on a pushbike.
The CBT pass lasts for 2 years and validates your provisional entitlement on any motorcycle (that you are allowed to ride), so at 17 you can jump straight on a 125 and feel silly about all the time and money that you will have inevitably sunk into trying to eke another 2 or 3 real mph out of your ped. 
You can sit your theory and pass your practical tests on that 125 yourself to get an A1 license, without any need for further training. I'd suggest that you do so, as it will get the clock ticking on your 2 year "new driver" probationary period.
Actually, you can pass a test at 16 on a ped and get an "AM" license. Almost nobody does it, but Allah loves wondrous varieties.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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arkolly
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Rogerborg
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arkolly
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 10:15 - 23 Nov 2013 Post subject: |
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| arkolly wrote: | Hi, I would love to get a Reiju RS1 but they are 2 stroke and I was really after a 4 stroke just because its easier. With 2 stroke, you need gearbox oil, engine oil, oil and petrol as fuel, is this correct? Thanks, can anyone else suggest any good 125cc 4 stroke bikes? Thanks |
2-Stroke:
- Fuel
- Engine-Oil Or Petrol / Oil Pre-Mix
- Gear-Box Oil
4-Stroke
-Fuel
- Engine Oil
- Gear-box Oil
Both types of engine need the lubrication in engine & gearbox and on the drive chain or shaft, and in the wheel bearings and every where else the service schedule tells you!
Only difference is that MOST four-stokes these days have the gear-box 'in unit' with the engine sharing the same oil.
There are older designes of engine that have three seperate 'sumps' one for the engine, another for the gear-box and a third for the 'primary drive' between the engine and gearbox... two-stroke or four-stroke...
I have a two-stroke trials bike; has seperate 'wet' primary drive; needs heavy gear-oil in teh gearbox, while takes lighter engine oil in the primary drive; then two-stroke oil 'Pre-Mix' in the petrol.
There are many old Brit-Bikes that have a 'Dry-Sump' engine; they take engine oil in a seperate tank, like a more modern two-stroke; then they have a 'Dry' Primary drive, basically a chain from a sprocket on the end of the crank and round the clutch, and a chain twixt the two. 'Dry', the chain needs tensioning and greasing from time to time, like the final drive chain; THEN they have heavy gear-oil in the seperate gear-box.
There are no 'generalities' in engine design; variations are enormouse.
ANYWAY: Two-Strokes OUGHT to be the simpler arrangement of engine. There's three moving parts. A Crank, a Piston and a con-rob connecting the two. Flow of charge and burned exhaust in and out of the engine is managed by bludy great holes in the wall of teh cylinder, that the piston opens and closes as it moves up and down.
So, the more basic two-stroke engines; air-cooled, piston ported or possibly only reed-valved; minimum moving parts, there's little to wear out, or need adjusting, AND putting the oil in with the petrol, either 'Pre-Mix' or through a positive-lubrication system via a metered pump... you are changing the oil every time you full up with petrol! They are pretty much the lowest maintenenace machine you can get.... They like a new spark-plug from time to time, and the gear oil needs changing perhaps once a year... maybe... but thats about it.
The hardiest four-strokes are push-rod engines like the CG125. The camshaft gear-driven in the bottom, there's not a lot down there that needs much attension, BUT you do have a chuck load more moving parts! You still have crank-shaft, con-rod and piston; but to get gas in and out the engine you now have to have poppet valves over the top of the cylinder; opened by a cam-shaft driven half crank speed, and closed by a spring. Between the two you have to have a 'valve train' which on push rod motor is rockers and push-rods. And there has to be a running 'clerance' between each of the moving parts, and they all have to be syncronised to that the valves open at the right time.
All these bits need to be lubricated, and with pretty critical bits of metal moving up and down right at the top of the engine, above the cylinder, you cant rely on the crank-shaft splashing some oil sloshing about in teh crank-case to get up there and keep-em 'wet'; so you have to have a positive pumped oil system, means a pump and then lots of fine high pressure oil passages to get the oil from pump to the stuff that needs it.
Having the hear-box 'in unit' with the engine sharing the same oil, means you only have to change one lot of oil; but as its shared, and worked twice as hard, you probably have to change it twice as often. And you have all these other bits to worry about, like adjusting the valve clerances and on over-head cam engines, the cam-chain tensioner, and possibly an oil strainer of filter. As well as the spark-plug.
Back to generalities; The four-stroke engine has all these added moving bits, regardless of how highly-stressed it is. As you get more complex and more sophisticated engines, taking on over-head cams, maybe double overhead cams, three, four or five valve cylinder heads, water-cooling, and gaining 'multiple' cylinders; theres a spread of much of a muchness. More sophisticated motors tend to need more maintenence; but, its all withing similar limits.
Two-Stroke; you have a dumbell distribution; at one end, beneath the maintenence demands of the typical four-stroke, you have the low-performance two-stroke; as said, typically air-cooled, single cyclinder; probably piston ported; its as simple as they come, and needs bog all attension. Then theres a big leap, to the 'High-Performance' two-stroke, which will typically have water-cooling; a sophisticated exhaust resonance 'power-valve' and be in a very much higher state of tune, loading components and shortening service life.
BUT they still have few moving parts; follow the service schedule, do what the book says when it says, and theoretically they should be pretty much as 'reliable' as anything else.
Thing with them IS, though, where on a little four-stroke like the CG125, you have to do an oil change every 1000 miles or so, and a sensible owner checks the tappets and changes the spark plug at the same time.... Hi-Po 2T like an Aprillia or Reiju...remember, you keep the two-stroke engine oil topped up... its doing an oil change for you every time you fill up with fuel.... while the gear-oil, that doesn't have to be so thin to run in the engine, and isn't picking up the soot and shit from being 'cooked' in the cyclinder head, can last a very long time.... so the 'gaps' between services CAN be pretty large....
When they come, though... CAN be a bit of a shock!
Two-Stroke; without positive pumped engine lubrication, uses 'open' ball-bearing type bearings on teh crank-shaft and con-rod; so the oil can get in and wet them. These dont have the same load carrying capacity as force-lubed bearings, and wear out quicker for a given load.
Meanwhile, the 'performance' of a Hi-Po two-stroke comes from having BIG holes in the cyclinder walls; every time the piston sweeps past one, the piston rings expand a bit into the gap, and bigger the hole, more they can expand; means more movement and more wear.
So, the piston, piston rings, cylinder, con-rod AND crankshaft... err... yeah ALL the moving parts... are deemed 'service spares' and service shedule provides periods at which they have to be changed!
This TENDS to be a LITTLE more expensive than buying a bit of oil and a new spark-plug.....
And in the hands of teen-age tear-aways trying to run a 'fast' bike on a pocket-money budget.... these bikes TEND not to get the bits they need, when they need them, to stay reliable...
Hence; they prove good to the first owner or so; but after that, they frequently end up neglected and botched beyond belief; gettiong a succession of 'top end rebuilds' with new piston rings rather than a new piston, or perhaps a new piston and rings, rather than a new cyclinder, piston and rings, and NEVER getting the crank & Con-rod replaced, so they keep nipping up, or shaking themselves to bits at ever shorter intervals, until some-one pulls them completely apart, hoping to sort them properly... at which point they are usuall well over ten years old, worth a few hundred quid, and optimistic owner deturmined to do the job properly, baulks when they discover that the new crank they need costs more than the bike did... at which point they tend to end up parted out on e-bay!
So.. BASICALLY the oft suggested and oft contradictory 'lore':-
Two strokes are simple
Two Strokes are easy to maintain
Two strokes are unreliable
Two strokes are expensive to maintain
Are explained by this dumbell distribution, between low-teck two-stoke commuters, and hi-tech two-stroke sprots bikes.
General rule of thumb; price proportional to power
More power a bike MAY make, then usually the more expensive its going to be to look after it. Remember, its the power it COULD make, not what it does. Throttle governs how much power the engine deliversl it dont make max power books say very often. BUT, bikes like the Aprillia or Reigu, that are 'Restricted', still have them big bludy holes in the cylinder that shorten component life, compared to the smaller holes in more mundane machines like a Kawasaki KH125; so even though motor has been restricted to 15hp, the potential power is still near 30, and running costs are going to be more comprable to a 30bhp bike than a 15bhp one.
So, DONT jump to conclusions, or base descissions on pre-conceptions; weigh everything up on its OWN merit.
I have a garden full of little four-stroke 125's that are largely as or more finikity than many two-strokes; being old, two-cylinder and, for a four-stroke, reletively highly tuned. There are always exceptions to the rule; and the rules here are not, anyway!
SO! What bike for when you are 17?
Whatever comes a-fucking-long for what you can afford, kid!
Few can afford to pick choose the bike they want from the brochures, money no-object; and its incredibly unlikely as a 'minor' too young to have a credit rating and get an HP Deal, or even buy thier insurance on installements; you are going to be one of them!
Learner-Legal 125's are in short supply; particularly 'decent' ones; there are more folk that want them than there are bikes on sale; while biking, is small potatoes in the greater scheme of road-use.
Less than 1% of road travel is done on a motorbike; there ENT many about! SO, for most folk, its a case of whats AVAILABLE not what they would LIKE.
And again; typical teenager; you are likely to be even more restricted for choice by what you could even get at by bus or by bicycle or taxi of Mum & Dad.
THIS is the likely reality...... IN TWO YEARS TIME!
What's on the market now? What it costs? What its worth? How 'good' it may or nay not be? COULD all change dramatically; or maybe not a lot!
However; Last January, new test & licence rules came into force; In the two or three year run up to that, while you could get a full-licence to let you ride what you like, all be it after two year restriction to 33bhp; the demand for 125's was high, as people rushed to try and get thier licences on one. That inflated demand for Learner-Legals; and boosted sales of new bikes'; though, bought as short term test-tools, a LOT of those extra sales were of pretty crappy chinky-bikes.
Now; we are passed that pinch-point. Demand for 125's has fallen off a bit; but there are still the extra bikes bought as test tools out there. And current buyers aren't looking at them as short term machines. If they are 17, they are going to be on one for two years until they can test for anything better. If they are over 19, then they could have full licence via course; so if they are buying a 125, it's probably because its a cheap way to work; and they are going to keep it a while.
As this new 125 useage pans itself out in the wake of licence changes then; I would expect that demand for the more upmarket bikes; the better made and better performing Jap stuff, will get stronger, as more people, anticipating two years or more on one, decide they dont want to put up with a make-do bike; while as longer term thinking starts to get hold, the short term expedience of low reliability and short lived chinky-bikes, sees them sink into the bargain basement.
So, things ARE likely to change in the market before you get there; BUT it will sill like as not be Hobson's Choice what comes along, that you can actually get your hands on and pay for with whatever money you have saved up between now and then.
NOT some fantacy notion of what you really want.
And as said; you'll be 17; too young for credit, so too young to buy on HP or to even get your insurance o installements. THAT alone means that you need to be prepared to have £500 or more set-asside before you even think about what you have to spend on a bike; to be able to pay an insurance policy, 'up-front'. And £500, for a 17 year-old, will likely only be 3rd party only policy on a humble CG-like commuter; not something three insurance groups higher, thanks to fancy plastics, likely to have a price with an extra zero on the end.
More reality... when it comes to it... after choice coming down NOT to what you really want, but what you can actually lay your hands on... and what of what you can lay your hands on you can afford to buy....
But, of all that, if there's anything that makes it that far, of THAT what you can afford to insure.
And its a long time off yet; you may completely loose interest in motorcycles all together, before you get there! Especially if some benevolent relative starts waving cars under your nose, and saying how 'Dangerouse' motorbikes are!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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angryjonny
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 19:11 - 23 Nov 2013 Post subject: |
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It's over a year before he can get on a 125. By then he'll want to be a train driver or an astronaut.
OP, if you're serious about getting into biking and have a supportive family, could you do some offroading in the meantime? On private land, you can ride anything you damn well like.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 74 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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