Welching on debts

[fatpies]

How come a lot of people consider say stealing a persons bike to be bad.

Yet welching on debts

like this:


https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=3755650#3755650

To be socially acceptable? I mean for debts people too on voluntarily rather than a penalty or fine.

You signed on the dotted line, you consumed whatever the debt bought therefore you pay for it.


How is it any different from intent to permanently deprive? and thus to steal?


My company had people like that, they would buy goods on credit and not pay me for them using long fraud scamming. As a result I had a couple of bad years and let go some of my staff.

I don't see any difference.
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"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"

[bazza]

No, no - you don't understand. They're advocating "sticking it to the man", you see, so it's OK.
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"That's it. You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college."
'98 Ducati 750SS, '08 Suzuki GSX650F ©2004-2014, Bazza's Harmless Banter

[Fisty]

There is a builder near me who gets all of his supplies on credit and the once a year (usually just before he is due to pay his tax) he declares the company bankrupt.
Within a week he has started again under a different name.

It's people like him that need euthanising. Since declaring himself bankrupt he had bought: - A BMW Z4, Jaguar XKR , brand new Triumph Rocket 3, brand new Suzuki Intruder and been on holiday to Thailand for 5 weeks. Yet apparently can afford to pay his suppliers!!
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Quietly and consistently taking the piss.
TL1000R | Hayabusa | ZXR400 | TL1000S | Bandit 400 V
Fatter and faster than Fret

[nowhere.elysium]

Totally agree. It's exactly this kind of entitled childishness that has led to the current state of the world - the assumption that there's endless credit, and no consequences.
'Sticking it to the man' is fine, provided there's someone else to pick up the tab.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[MarJay]

I've seen worse threads on it TBH.

I had a student loan and I overpaid for ages. They gave me seven grand back in the end...

Meh, I always pay my debts.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Hetzer]

If we're talking about welching on institutions, fair game (banks, govt, big business etc).

I mean, it's not like they're not preying on us, right?
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Skudd]

I worked with a guy who boasted about going bankrupt for £150k. The boasted about all the expensive holidays he now has and all the nice gear he gets. To me it is just legalised theft.
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Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[Derivative]

Nick a tenner from Richard Branson, he wouldn't notice it.
A tenner from me, I'd be annoyed.
From a homeless person, well.

I think it's daft to think of theft as black and white.

Obviously if you have a debt that makes up a relatively large portion of a person's wealth and you reneg on it that's mean. A debt to a multinational bank is a bit different.

[Hetzer]

[nowhere.elysium]

[Derivative]

What I mean is that it would make absolutely zero difference to his standard of living.

For me it'd be pretty close to not mattering (as long as it didn't happen multiple times). That's what I mean by 'an annoyance'.

It is quite obviously different to steal from a rich person compared to a poor person, morally. Whether or not either are 'fine' is a bit silly. I don't think having wealth at all (even £100) is 'fine' when others don't. I'll still do it, because 'fine' is not the metric by which I live my life.

[Hetzer]

Most rich people become rich because of avariciousness and once that mechanic has taken hold even the loss of a tenner due to theft will spark a deluge of self-righteous outrage.

"I worked hard for that money" they'll whine.

No you didn't; you're a fucking parasite with a sense of entitlement as big as your diseased ego.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[nowhere.elysium]

[Derivative]

He's 'worth' millions of people. The question is whether that sort of outsized reward is legitimate, not whether any reward is legitimate.

Having winners is great, winner-take-all not so much.

[Hetzer]

[Derivative]

Essentially a discussion about whether wealth and capitalism is legitimate.

I am worth 10+ of my school friends, monetarily.

Did I work 10 times harder than them? No, because the metagame is not related to work, it's related to how well you are at managing and seeking capital.

[TheSmiler]

Think you have missed the point of that thread as it seems what I can tell from it; OP had a payment plan set up however the student loans company didn't take the amount out of the account. Now they are sending it to a debt collector.

He is not arguing that he shouldn't pay it, just after advice because they broke the agreement.
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CB125>CG125>GN125>ER5>K100RS>R1100RS>K100RS
A2 completed 23/07/15 Ready for the Golden Crisp Packet

[nowhere.elysium]

[fatpies]

[Derivative]

Well, it's probably of questionable legality, but immoral to fail to repay the Student Loans Company?

Struggling with that. I'd do it if I thought it were worth it.

[hellkat]

I really want to like Richard Branson.
But I'm too old and cynical to believe that anybody is *that* nice, any more.
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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[nowhere.elysium]

It's not as if I want to spoon the guy, but his conduct does rather suggest that he's more inclined to try and use what he's got well than to just sit on it like so many others.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[hellkat]

I agree.
That's why I *want* to like him.

But ... who (apart from me) have you ever met in real life who is THAT goddam nice?

I'm nice, and Branson even seems unfeasibly nice to me.

Although having said that, if I was as minted as he is, I would prolly give it away as well.

There are only so many bacon sandwiches, handbags and chocolate-dipped dwarves that a person can buy before even they begin to lose their appeal.
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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[hellkat]

BUT ... back to welching on debts.
I'm not so nice that if I thought I could get away with it, I wouldn't pay back a debt. If I can wriggle out of it, I would.

But I would always pay back personal debts.
No matter how minted you are, you never know when you might want to borrow money back from a mate. And if you already owed that mate money, not only are they less likely to want to cough up, you're less likely to want to approach them if you're still into them, even for a jacks.
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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[nowhere.elysium]

Dunno about that: I can probably go through a fair few chocolate-coated bacon dwarves before I start to get bored.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project