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Plebgate continues...

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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Plebgate continues... Reply with quote
It's not going to die...

Police have repeatedly been found to be lying over this incident and yet now one of the officers has decided to sue - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25216627

I think Mitchell should sue the police.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
lying scumbag sue's another lying scumbag = lawyers get rich Thumbs Up
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Re: Plebgate continues... Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
now one of the officers has decided to sue

No doubt he will be financed by The Police Federation in his quest.
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map
Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 12:02 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
So this is a case of "He said, (s)he said" then and as said, lawyers get richer. As far as I can see policeman can't prove politician lied (although being a politician Thinking ) and also vice versa (also although being a policeman, because they never lie Rolling Eyes ). No 3rd party independent witness/evidence.

So I'll just say it looks like conspiracy theory for the police to smear the politicians, it's a bit of a power, see who's your bitch, struggle.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
No 3rd party independent witness/evidence.

What about the crowds of people that were standing at the gates and were said to be shocked by what they witnessed?
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
More important is the question of who gives a flying fuck, how many tens of thousands of pounds is being wasted on this? Are we to drag every person that calls us a nasty name through the courts?

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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 12:08 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
map wrote:
No 3rd party independent witness/evidence.
What about the crowds of people that were standing at the gates and were said to be shocked by what they witnessed?

...but what did they hear?
What people say might not be what's heard.
I'm reminded of "Send reinforcements we're going to advance" reported as "Send 2 and 6, we're going to a dance" (or something like that, I might have misheard).
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N cee thirty This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

Raffles
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
I'm reminded of "Send reinforcements we're going to advance" reported as "Send 2 and 6, we're going to a dance" (or something like that, I might have misheard).

Three and fourpence Wink
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
map wrote:
No 3rd party independent witness/evidence.

What about the crowds of people that were standing at the gates and were said to be shocked by what they witnessed?


would that be the tourist wandering about, or the two old ladies looking the other way
Video evidence shows only 3 people "Near" the gates at the time Thumbs Up

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/12/19/1355927331917/Plebgate-incident-CCTV-st-010.jpg

lets play Spot the crowd of shocked witnesses Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/12/19/1355927331917/Plebgate-incident-CCTV-st-010.jpg

There's video of it? Get a lip-reader, ZOOM AND ENHANCE! The country must know the truth. Folded arms
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
lets play Spot the crowd of shocked witnesses Thumbs Up

Police logs and a supporting email both claimed that "several members of the public" were present, that they had heard the exchange and were "visibly shocked".
They wouldn't lie....Would they?
Wink
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
oldpink wrote:
lets play Spot the crowd of shocked witnesses Thumbs Up

Police logs and a supporting email both claimed that "several members of the public" were present, that they had heard the exchange and were "visibly shocked".
They wouldn't lie....Would they?
Wink


judge for yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPir2l9OhJg

shows 3 cam's around the incident
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
...but what did they hear?
What people say might not be what's heard.
I'm reminded of "Send reinforcements we're going to advance" reported as "Send 2 and 6, we're going to a dance" (or something like that, I might have misheard).


So, as has been pointed out - the crowds were 1 or 3 people wich clearly shows the police were lying about that. Then... the recorded meeting where the higher ranking police said Mitchell did not give an account of his actions, the recording showed different. Then... the concerned witness who emailed the police backing up the story who turned out to be a cop who wasn't even there.

Clearly three cases of lying, but the problem is the cop doing the suing is is doing it because Mitchell said he lied about his account. There has been nothing *proved* incorrect about his story. I expect the cop will win his case or get paid off.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Someone who thought they were high and mighty and could do what he anted with a bit of bluster found out he couldn't. Police picked up on the ego trip MP being derogatory towards the police, the police put a few extra words in his mouth to emphasize how much of a dick the MP was. The police got caught out on the actual wording so mp milks it for all it is worth, police now fight back.

It all boils down to the MP not going through the correct gate and now is a massive fail at our expense.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Someone who thought they were high and mighty and could do what he anted with a bit of bluster found out he couldn't. Police picked up on the ego trip MP being derogatory towards the police, the police put a few extra words in his mouth to emphasize how much of a dick the MP was. The police got caught out on the actual wording so mp milks it for all it is worth, police now fight back.

It all boils down to the MP not going through the correct gate and now is a massive fail at our expense.

So you think that it's okay for police to put a few extra words into peoples' mouths then, do you?
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
Skudd wrote:
Someone who thought they were high and mighty and could do what he anted with a bit of bluster found out he couldn't. Police picked up on the ego trip MP being derogatory towards the police, the police put a few extra words in his mouth to emphasize how much of a dick the MP was. The police got caught out on the actual wording so mp milks it for all it is worth, police now fight back.

It all boils down to the MP not going through the correct gate and now is a massive fail at our expense.

So you think that it's okay for police to put a few extra words into peoples' mouths then, do you?

No. but it is also wrong what the MP did in the first place.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
No. but it is also wrong what the MP did in the first place.


IMO in the relative levels of wrongness, the police putting words in his mouth is far worse than his words to begin with.

The MP concerned was being a dick sure, but he wasn't the first and he won't be the last either.

OTOH, evidence of the police lying should be an absolute outrage. Not to rehash previous posts too much, but if the "professional witnesses" are found to be lying, it causes loss of faith in the rule of law and challenges the whole legal system. Police are meant to be above all that - the idea that people granted such massive powers over the common citizen are capable of "putting words in someones mouth" is an absolutely horrendous situation, far in excess of some MP getting arsey about what gate to use.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You realise that the police answer to "some MP", right?
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 16:00 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
You realise that the police should answer to "some MP", right?

Fixed that for you. IMHO jury's out on your original version.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
No. but it is also wrong what the MP did in the first place.


Swearing is no great crime. Especially as the police have been told in court they should man up and take the odd bit of abuse. Asserting what he thinks is right, even if it is as simple as 'my vehicle is as equal as all the other vehicles' is surely what you want of your MPs?

Lying to the point that someone loses his job (well has to resign because of the controversy). Is a much worse crime. I really would like to see all those proved of wrong doing to be punished, but I suspect the 8 of them to get away with slapped wrists. Maybe one scape goat as they really are up against it here.

Mitchell will be very lucky if he manages to successfully defend libel action. I think that shows the failure of the libel/slander system in the UK... If Mitchell now sues the cop he will likely win too, because you have to prove what's said is true. Think about that... if you accuse someone of something, they respond with "no that's not true, you're lying" you can sue them for calling you a liar.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two plebs, each a member of organisations well known for their "institutional" lying antics are going to court over lying, you couldn't make it up, FFS! Rolling Eyes
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mass furor about nothing, part 23
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
more crap to distract us away from the real issues that need to be reported on and dealt with
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 04 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
more crap to distract us away from the real issues that need to be reported on and dealt with


That's the idea. The "One death is tragedy..." effect extends to other parts of current affairs and politics. A politician called some coppers "plebs" (or didn't), I really couldn't give a fuck. He can mutter about doley twats, Manc filth and Scouse cunts for all I care, at least the fucker is being honest if so. I'm more concerned when they're sneaking deals under the carpet and changing laws and policies that will effect your life or the way the country is run, not whether he called PC plod a pleb, a pig (that would be Ms Clinton) or whatever.

"Plebgate" is a pure sideshow or smokescreen. I suspect he may have pissed someone off within the power structure for it even to have become the media non-issue it is.
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