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Lowside vid: howed it happen?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Lowside vid: howed it happen? Reply with quote

So how do folks think this happened? I think she just leandd too far for the speed she was doing. Any other thoughts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq1IS7mhgl8
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 01:11 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

She was slightly chopping the throttle and she wasnt going fast enough for the amount of lean she wanted.
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recman
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PostPosted: 01:20 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

And 'murican.

She was having a 'shall I, shan't I?' moment, probably more concerned about the way she looked rather than the way she rode.
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G
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PostPosted: 01:32 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 40 seconds you can see the front tuck.
I suspect it was 'recoverable' at this point.
She has pretty decent arm position, but I wonder if they were a bit too rigid. Or possibly she tried to 'correct' the initial loss of traction forcing the bike down.
You can see after the tyre seems to slide out a bit, the steering is turned inwards, but the bike doesn't really come around.
I suspect the 'lack of adhesion' moment was the patched tarmac.
A bike with decent tyres should be able to handle what we say there, I'd say.
I suspect she had tyres that didn't work well from cold and maybe had the right side cold if she'd been going easy up until the corner with the camera.
I suspect hanging off would have helped - if nothing else, it adds a little 'flex' to the system.
I also suspect a slight positive throttle would have helped - they generally recommend you are gently accelerating around a corner to put a bit more weight on to the rear tyre.
If she was on a decelerating throttle position, it would be putting a lot of load on the thinner front tyre.

To be fair, I haven't saved a great deal of front end slides (rear slides are much easier to handle). When I was racing well I was able to catch a few mid-corner front end slides while still on the brakes. Others I didn't catch and ended up getting a lift back (or in one case, trying to re-enter the race, then realising I didn't have a right hand foot peg!)

CaNsA wrote:
she wasnt going fast enough for the amount of lean she wanted.

Then she'd have turned tighter.
The only way (that I can think of) to force a bike down while holding the same cornering is to push your body the other way.
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 01:47 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me it looked like she just threw the bike on its side expecting it ride like it was on rails. She was also fairly static on the bike, when going for big lean angles you'd expect her to shift some weight to the inside at least.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 03:57 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fairly sure it was because there was a dip in the pavement, and the forks, at an angle, weren't able to follow it fast enough to keep traction.

You can see the rear of the subframe lift as the bike tilts forward in reaction to the front end dipping.

Probably with better / hotter tyres and better surface, only her boot slider would have touched. But better suspension, or less lean angle so the suspension has a more direct vector on mediating the weight shifts, would have been even more successful.

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suburban myth
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PostPosted: 08:04 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going with the road surface playing a part here too. Funny that she lost it exactly on the different coloured tarmac, which the front bobbles over as well.

Maybe I'm being a little picky but at 37 seconds there's a decent view of the rear tyre and it looks a little square.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Binned it every bit as well as a man would have. Folded arms

Yes, road surface and all that, but really the same answer as every other muppet that spreads their bike down that road: obsessed with doing a hero lean to impress the audience, forgot that physics doesn't care how many cameras are on it.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It shows one of the biggest failures with motorcycle cornering technique... you lean to get the bike round the corner quickly, not because leaning the bike looks cool...

She was moving her body the opposite way to the bike, she had the bike over far more than was necessary and had random throttle. Every time I see vids of that corner I'm surprised by how low people are going for a complete lack of speed, show-off rather than functional riding...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
Every time I see vids of that corner I'm amused by how low people are going for a complete lack of speed, show-off rather than functional riding...

Surely?

Mrs Borg finds these hilarious, she's watched more than I have. Cruel breed, the Zetlanders.
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Mrs Borg finds these hilarious, she's watched more than I have. Cruel breed, the Zetlanders.


The one of the motorbike going straight into the back of the cyclists was nasty Shocked
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clancy
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this that corner there's hundreds of videos of Americans crashing their bikes on ?
Maybe there all just shit riders ?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
At 40 seconds you can see the front tuck.
I suspect it was 'recoverable' at this point.
She has pretty decent arm position, but I wonder if they were a bit too rigid. Or possibly she tried to 'correct' the initial loss of traction forcing the bike down.
You can see after the tyre seems to slide out a bit, the steering is turned inwards, but the bike doesn't really come around.
I suspect the 'lack of adhesion' moment was the patched tarmac.
A bike with decent tyres should be able to handle what we say there, I'd say.
I suspect she had tyres that didn't work well from cold and maybe had the right side cold if she'd been going easy up until the corner with the camera.
I suspect hanging off would have helped - if nothing else, it adds a little 'flex' to the system.
I also suspect a slight positive throttle would have helped - they generally recommend you are gently accelerating around a corner to put a bit more weight on to the rear tyre.
If she was on a decelerating throttle position, it would be putting a lot of load on the thinner front tyre.

To be fair, I haven't saved a great deal of front end slides (rear slides are much easier to handle). When I was racing well I was able to catch a few mid-corner front end slides while still on the brakes. Others I didn't catch and ended up getting a lift back (or in one case, trying to re-enter the race, then realising I didn't have a right hand foot peg!)

CaNsA wrote:
she wasnt going fast enough for the amount of lean she wanted.

Then she'd have turned tighter.
The only way (that I can think of) to force a bike down while holding the same cornering is to push your body the other way.


All of this ^^^ Speshally the patchy tarmac. The back end stepped out almost exactly where it met the darker surface.
It looks like Looser's Hill (Mulholland Hwy CA) where all the 'Grates' are to be found.
Some other Murican fcukwit in a Port-cha or High-a-Boosa possibly binned it in some sort of fireball previously which destroys the road surface.
On off throttle upset CoG loading-unloading tyre footprints.
Everything she did was wrong but It in no way suggests I would not 'hit' her. Cool Embarassed
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

clancy wrote:
Isn't this that corner there's hundreds of videos of Americans crashing their bikes on ?
Maybe there all just shit riders ?


Yes, Mulholland Highway.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure they oil the tarmac just to have crashes. I've seen videos of people binning bikes there at about 20mph with f*ck all lean angle. It can't all be down to lousy technique.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think she is just has the bike too far over, may be if she'd kept it more upright and shifted her weight a bit, it would have been fine,
but she pushed the bike under her moving away from the road,

but meh really
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
that physics doesn't care how many cameras are on it.



It does at the quantum level, look up double slit experiment.

When observed electrons act as particles.

When not observed they act like waves.

Even Uranium doesn't like to be watched if you watch it, then it doesn't decay

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/037843719190048H


/geek
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
that physics doesn't care how many cameras are on it.



It does at the quantum level, look up double slit experiment.

When observed electrons act as particles.

When not observed they act like waves.

Even Uranium doesn't like to be watched if you watch it, then it doesn't decay

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/037843719190048H


/geek


22 year old science? https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v405/n6786/abs/405546a0.html

At least it's from this century Wink
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I'm sure they oil the tarmac just to have crashes. I've seen videos of people binning bikes there at about 20mph with f*ck all lean angle. It can't all be down to lousy technique.


maybe rnickmouse needs investigating.

what struck me was most sliding crashes on that road are people obsessed with getting some scratches on their knee slider but she just seemed to be taking it easy, then blam it was like the rear wheel was just kicked out from under her.
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G
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think it was the front wheel that went first. At about 41 seconds the front wheel looks to be almost out of line with the rear - as I believe it's slid to the outside a little.

Little rear wheel slides tend to be self-correcting. They turn the bike in a bit. Front wheel slides less so.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon she should have been WAY nearer the middle of the road throughout and watching the vanishing point instead of the white line until she could see her exit.
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beardface
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N3XbgPL2Qg

Laughing
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parkmoy
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

She rolled off the throttle just before it happened so not enough speed for the lean angle.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
forgot that physics doesn't care how many cameras are on it.

But it does; the whole Shrodiners Cat thing, of whether any physical observation is merely observed because some-one was there to observe it...
We then have the Denis Nordon principle, if something can go wrong it probably will, more so if there's a camera watching.
To which the GP Paddock provided lots of supporting data, in the early days of 'on-board' cameras, which almost inevitably increased the chances that the camera car / bike would crash, break-down or otherwise fail to perform.
While You-Tube itself, supports the suggestion... there's gazzillions of video clips of people falling over, crashing cars, falling off motorbikes and other wise having calamities when there is a camera about!
Yet walk down the road, people are hapily going about thier lives, unobserved and quite calamity free!

So the answer to why she fell off.... Some-one pointed a CAMERA at her!

You see, a camera observes, there fore it makes light behave as particles, so that the cameras CCD or similar sensor mechanism can 'count particles' striking whatever points of the receptor.

Light would PREFER and if unobserved to be a wave; so in order to become a particle, to satisfy the observing camera's apatite for photons.. there has to be a change in state.

Any change in state, as we all know from Einstein, is associated with a change in elergy levels, Energy = Mass times the speed of light squared; as a wave, light has no mass, it is pure energy, but to become a particle, it has to transfrom itself into matter, which has mass... mass has gravity, so at the moment light changes state from wave to particle, in order to satisfy the camera, a new 'gravity' comes into existance... THIS influences all matter around it,

THIS causes a chain reaction, that results in a micro-fluctuation of gravitational field; a 'gravity surge'... and THAT is what makes people fall over in front of cameras.

See... simple physics. It WAS the camera!
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G
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 06 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

parkmoy wrote:
She rolled off the throttle just before it happened so not enough speed for the lean angle.

Again; how can you have 'not enough speed for the lean angle'?
If you roll off it will unweight the rear and weight the front, both of which can cause a slide.

But from what I know of motorcycle physics, your speed and lean angle (accounting for CoG) dictate your cornering mostly in such situations. So if your lean stays constant and you lower your speed, your line tightens.

Happy to be proved wrong.
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