Clutch and Variator need setting up!?!

[binge]

Right, Im after some advice...

The other day I put my Malossi Delta clutch and some 5.5g rollers in my scooter, It rides great (Totally Awsome) But it revs like a crosser in neutral before the clutch ingages....

Apart from it sounding quite nice, Its fucking anoying cos ive gota pull the throttle right open before the bike pulls away...

Once the clutch ingages the bike pulls away like a rocket...

I take it I need to change my Clutch springs, Is it easy?

Also, the midrange on my scooter is pretty flat, How can I improve the Midrange without killing the pull away etc...

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(Im after some advice from "divuk83" Really )

[binge]

It might be a good idea to state what scooter I have

Speedfight 70cc
Malossi Delta clutch
Malossi sports Variator and 5.5g rollers
Malossi gearup kit
Malossi Big bore reedblocks and carbon reeds
21mm Malossi carb and K&N style filter
Technigas rs70 70cc exhaust...

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[Kye]

You have strong clutch springs in, the idea of these is that after extensive tuning you engine produces most its power high up in the rev range, and if you use standard clutch springs, they will engage too early and bog down the motor, since it is no longer producing the bulk of its power that low down. If you buy a pack of Malossi clutch springs, you will have a choice of 3 which you can play with.

As for the rollers, they basically control what rpm you engine makes during the transmission "part" of accelerating, i.e.

Throttle - clutch engages and your rev's rise up to a point depending on the roller weight, then the CVT transmission comes into play and alters the ratio's keeping your rev's roughly static (+ / - 1000rpm usually) until the CVT reaches its maximum, then the rev's will continue to rise until you reach top speed.

The rollers just control what rpm your engine runs at during the stage where the transmission is "working" and altering the ratio's. The idea when setting up these is that you have the right weight in to make it run at the rpm where it makes peak power.

If you are suffering from poor midrange then you either have your rollers too light, or too heavy. Since you say the take off is very good, then its revving its nut's off, I'd say you have them too light, so it takes off quick, as it the rev's rise up to peak power, then go straight past it and over-rev's as they are too light.

I reccomend you buy 3 or 4 packs of rollers, say 6.5g, 7.5g and 8.5g, and see which set / combination gives you the power where you want it. When mixing rollers, just use 2 different weights, and use them in an 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 format if you get me, keeping it balanced.

For a Peugeot Speedfight, the rollers are 16x13mm if you need to state it when ordering

Hope this helps

[divuk83]

Kye is the man to listen to. I don't know much about setting up 50's having never owned one. 5.5g rollers sound light, but then I consider anything below 14g light. I get my sprint setup done by simply saying "Martin make it faster" at Chisel Speed! Also I wouldn't go setting the clutch up overly stiff as it will be lethal in wet or icy conditions.

Dave

[Kye]

In winter, I'd say run the Malossi low or medium clutch springs, roughly 4k-5k biting point, then in summer I ran the 7k biting springs, which gave immense off the line acceleration, but can be a bit iffy to control if you're navigating low speed around corners

On my Zip-172 I just use the 4k biting point ones, anything higher and its too hard to control

My friend has an Speedfight which I helped set-up, and uses a DR70 kit with a ZX and 17.5mm carb, its actually pretty nippy and out accelerated a Gilera Runner with an MHR Replica kit on, which surprised me. He runs 7.6g rollers which where a tad on the light side (maybe by around 0.3g), but the DR its are more torquey and low revving then a lot of the Nicosil kits.

After setting up a fair few 70cc's now, I've found its always helps to start at around 7.5-8g's and work from there, but if a perfect solution can't be found, then 7.5g is usually a good comprimise for a lot of road tune 70 kits.

[binge]

I never knew you could mix rollers...
I always thaught about doing it, But didnt know weather it would work...

At the moment, My scooter pulls away then stays at full revs right through the rev range. Ive started it up with a drill without the side cover on, and when I rev it the Multi Variator and Clutch variator seem to expand straight away...
There is no build up, As soon as the clutch engages, The variator end expands and the clutch end goes right in...
Is this right?

I had malossi 7.2g rollers in and they were too heavy and I had to paddle to get the scooter moving. And now I have put 5.5s in, It pulls away a bit on the rapid side, then goes flat...

Would 5.5g, 6.2g, 5.5g, 6.2, etc work?

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[Kye]

Yeh, like I said, its just like jetting, you have to play around until you find a set-up how you like it.

Just when mixing rollers make sure you arrange them so they are balanced, otherwise you'll throw your crank off true and probably bend / snap it

And when you look at the transmission moving whilst free wheeling, it will all adjust really quick since there is no load on the bike, its just spinning a wheel.

Same as going through the gears on a normal bike, it will be really quick if you have the wheel off the floor, since its not trying to move a heavy load.

[binge]

Yeh
Common sense kinda tells me to ballance the weight

Its like some rollers which have 1 end capped and 1 end open, You should put them all the same way around...

I was flicking through my Twist N Go mag the other (go ahead, Call me a ped boi! ... Even tho im not)
And I noticed Malossi have brought out a new Multi variator...
https://malossiuk.com/graphics/ss3.jpg

Will it make much difference to my current Variator... Its not a race Variator, Just a Malossi Variator plate...

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Also What does this do, And does it go on the CVT?
https://malossiuk.com/graphics/s3.gif

[Kye]

If you just have the plate, then the Multivar variator basically smooths out the acceleration. You don't usually need to replace the static plate though, so are you sure you don't already have the multivar? If not anyway, and you decide to get one, remember you may have to use slightly heavier rollers, as the actual variator itself is lighter than standard.

The Malossi torque driver basically smooths out the initial take-off, although I've never actually tried one, as they seem expensive for what they are.

You can have a fairly good road set-up without a lot of fancy transmission parts though, just play around with the rollers.

[binge]

My variator is standard (think), and The plate which goes inside it (looks like a 3 leaf clover) is black and engraved with malossi.

Them torque drivers are a bit expensive for a metal disc.

Im going to go to my bike shop next week and get some 6.2g rollers and mix them with the 5.5s to see if I can keep my good take off but have better mid range too...

Ive got some Malossi 7.2g rollers. would it be ok to mix 5.5s with 7.2 cos its quite a difference?

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Oh, and Merry Xmas dude!

[Kye]

If the backing plate says Malossi, then the variator is the Malossi one (Multivar is the brand name for their aftermarket variator)

Try the 7.2's and see, like I said, just have a play.

[binge]

Well im off out now to show all the kids with their mini motos what a real bike is
Off to the Pub with me old man too!

Merry Christmas people!

And cheers for the help, ill get to the scooter shop and get few packs of rollers do a bit of testing and let you all know...

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[DM]

[binge]

Ok. well im going to try the 5g and the 6g rollers together. see what the outcome is. Then try just the 6g rollers etc...
Until I find the desire performance of the scooter...
Rollers are easy to change, wheras ive never changed clutch springs. I can only change the whole clutch...
Ive been told that ive got an adjustable clutch. its a Malossi Delta clutch...

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