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| ninja_butler |
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ninja_butler
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 Posted: 14:49 - 18 Jan 2014  Post subject: Do you know your rights against the police? |
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| Mario_Kempes |
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Mario_Kempes
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| BakesBeans |
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BakesBeans
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Posted: 22:45 - 18 Jan 2014  Post subject: |
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A good video to watch is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Some important lessons to be learnt from that.
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| Quornholio |
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Quornholio
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| pepperami |
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pepperami
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| Posted: 20:43 - 19 Jan 2014 Post subject: |
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Rights? police abiding by the law? they would never lie? or deceive you? , yer right 
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ninja_butler
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| Benno |
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Benno
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| Tungtvann |
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Tungtvann
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| -Matt- |
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-Matt-
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| Fruit'n'nut |
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Fruit'n'nut
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| ninja_butler |
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ninja_butler
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| -Matt- |
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-Matt-
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| Posted: 23:58 - 20 Jan 2014 Post subject: |
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I always thought they read your rights when being arrested, and furthermore when in custody  or is that just the good'uns |
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| ninja_butler |
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ninja_butler
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| tbourner |
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tbourner
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| Posted: 10:08 - 21 Jan 2014 Post subject: Re: Do you know your rights against the police? |
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He is stupid; the reason he's been pulled over so often is cos he didn't just get out the car the first time and show his licence - it's not hard.
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| tbourner |
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tbourner
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| Posted: 10:36 - 21 Jan 2014 Post subject: Re: Do you know your rights against the police? |
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Slippery slope fallacy. I would fight my case if I felt it necessary, but I don't see any problem with handing over details to the cops when they ask, IMO it's really not necessary in that case. Just being a PITA for the sake of it.
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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| Posted: 10:46 - 21 Jan 2014 Post subject: Re: Do you know your rights against the police? |
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| tbourner wrote: |
He is stupid; the reason he's been pulled over so often is cos he didn't just get out the car the first time and show his licence - it's not hard. |
To be fair to the copper. He used the correct legislation to do the stop.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/163
For me it's about a medium. There are those that love to flex their rights at every opportunity, getting the copper's back up.
There is a time and a place to flex your rights. IMO be as non-committal as possible. Give them the stuff you are legally obliged to, and nothing more.
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| Benno |
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Benno
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| tbourner |
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tbourner
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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Posted: 14:22 - 21 Jan 2014  Post subject: Re: Do you know your rights against the police? |
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| tbourner wrote: | The point was you're trying to suggest that because I would stop for Police I must similarly agree to go to court for playing my music too loudly for the tastes of the old biddy next door. I wouldn't, and that's the fallacy, go look it up. |
Then you are mistaken in what I meant. The fact I introduced a new paragraph for my second point was meant to differentiate it. I said every freedom you hand over is closer to a police state... I didn't say we'd definitely get there, in fact my next point was fortunately another freedom wasn't handed over.
I do suspect your view is really "well it doesn't affect me so go ahead". Which is what I alluded to at the end of my second point.
I know what a slippery slope fallacy is, I also know that just because someone hints at a slippery slope does not make it an instant fallacy. I ask again: "Explain why it's a fallacy?" (and just to make it clear, don't tell me what a slippery slope fallacy is, tell me what it was about my argument that made it a fallacy).
| tbourner wrote: | They're in no way the same thing. If a copper pulls you over you stop and give them your details, you can't just sit there and say you don't want to or else you're just going to cause more hassle for yourself. You can't act a twat and then complain about the 5-0 picking on you. |
You can and you should. I wouldn't hand over my details to just anyone, thus I wouldn't hand them over to police without being compelled to.
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| Fruit'n'nut |
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Fruit'n'nut
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| Posted: 15:33 - 21 Jan 2014 Post subject: |
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| ninja_butler wrote: |
It's virtually the same system in the UK as it is in the USA
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I disagree, IMO there are quite major differences between police powers in the two countries (particularly England & Wales IME.)
| ninja_butler wrote: |
The police are legally allowed to deceive and mislead you and for all practical purposes you've got little chance of arguing later against outright falsehoods before the point when you were taken into custody.
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In the legal sense, PACE Code C prohibits oppressive interviewing, which includes lying to interviewees.
If by the second part of the above, you mean arguing against false accusations, then you're right in that you might not have much chance to discuss the matter prior to being detained and formally interviewed, as that discussion would likely constitute an interview and be governed by PACE.
| ninja_butler wrote: |
Also, the police are not required to make you aware of your rights or the limitations of their powers. |
In what sense? For example PACE dictates that officers make you aware of a number of items of interest during stop-searches, including the power under which they are acting, their grounds for stopping you, their identity and station etc.
The same Act provides that police serve documentation on occupiers of premises when they are searched, which includes information on your rights and the limitations of police powers.
A further distinct question is this: is it up to the police to make you aware of your rights and responsibilities in relation to every single law and impact of that law on your daily life, or should you take some responsibility and make yourself aware of both your rights and responsibilities?
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| Fruit'n'nut |
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Fruit'n'nut
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| tbourner |
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tbourner
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| Posted: 15:50 - 21 Jan 2014 Post subject: Re: Do you know your rights against the police? |
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| daemonoid wrote: | I ask again: "Explain why it's a fallacy?" (and just to make it clear, don't tell me what a slippery slope fallacy is, tell me what it was about my argument that made it a fallacy). |
I did, you've said I inferred incorrectly, so it's moot.
| daemonoid wrote: | | tbourner wrote: | you can't just sit there and say you don't want to or else you're just going to cause more hassle for yourself. You can't act a twat and then complain about the 5-0 picking on you. |
You can and you should. I wouldn't hand over my details to just anyone, thus I wouldn't hand them over to police without being compelled to. |
OK you can, but you shouldn't. I could if I wanted to; be rude and ignorant to my manager at work, he can't sack me for it (on its own) and I have no particular desire to be nice to him. Why don't I ignore him when he says "good morning" to me? Because it will get me nowhere and gain me nothing but hassle.
| daemonoid wrote: | I do suspect your view is really "well it doesn't affect me so go ahead". Which is what I alluded to at the end of my second point. |
It doesn't affect me because I've never been a knob to the police or anyone else, I've been pulled over twice in my life, both times were dealt with within 5 minutes, no hassles, on my way. I just don't understand this anarchist attitude people seem to have.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 15 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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