kneedown question again!!

[BLOFLY 636]

yep me again! I am now getting a little better at knee down but I have another coulpe of questions that I need to ask before I can progress to the next level! I find that when leaning over that if I go faster the bike feels much better planted but I feel more uptight! and when leaned over how do you know if the bike will just keep wanting to lean over? like when I have hold of the bars and tip the bike in a bit more how do you know when you are getting close (TOO CLOSE) I don't want to touch a peg down but I feel like when I lean over I am constantly leaning the bike over and standing it up and leaning over and standing it up all in very small twitchy movements but I feel if I don't fight the lean it will just, well.....fall over! finally I think I have just managed to write what I am experiencing! I see on videos that guys just fling the bikes over from knee to knee without a twitch! how do the know the bike just wont keep going over? is it all to do with speed? and if the bike wants to lean over more than I want it to will I be able to take the weight with my knee for a split second while I blip the throttle to make it stand up again? your all probably sick to death of these kneedown questions! but I really have got to do it once at least! for something that looks so easy it sure as hell isn't!
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Those bloody footpegs......they ought to do away with em!

[BLOFLY 636]

I found some interesting pics to show the difference in my efforts!
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Those bloody footpegs......they ought to do away with em!

[Frost]

when hanging off you shift the weight of the bike. It corners just as well without leaning over so far. racers typically do this as they are reaching the limit of how far the bike will lean, yet still need more speed.
People hang off as its the cool thing to do, rather than because they are at the bikes limit, hence you are hanging off and the bike is not leaning to its limit.

You can lean the bike over just as much when hanging off as you can when not doing so. So should you have to guts to do it you could hang off and lean the bike alot more. Its all about confidence and practise. So it's just something you'll have to work at over the next summer

[Git]

[G]

Unless you are going very slowly, the bike will remain stable, even at very slow speeds (say close circle around a mini roundabout) you can hold it with countersteering.

Rather than 'dipping' down, the best way is to just increase your speed and lean slightly each time you pass.

Providing you always try to increase your lean progressively, you shouldn't have a problem with bits of your bike touching down. You should notice the way it feels different way before you are likely to crash; I've seen Dusty circle roundabouts with his peg down on a couple of bikes.
The other thing to watch out for is the back end stepping out, more likely on a modern sports bike if you are hanging off properly. It probably won't feel like an actual slide, but you fill the front end is suddenly pointing in slightly more (a noticable amount, you will realise when this happens).

For the actual hanging off technique; it definitely looks like you can hang off more. When I first was practicing I used the 'hang of like a monkey' style. This gives you the best ground clearance and the best grip from the tyres generally.
Have a look at some world-level racing and see how much they are off the bike. You will often see people with both arse cheeks off, also note the way they hang their whole body off, including the torso.
Other thing I noticed in your pics was that it looks like you are sticking your lower foot out. This is not reccomended, as this can lead to your footwear going down, which tends to be more grippy than the shiny metal on the peg.
The ball of your foot should be on the peg, snugly pushed up against the bike.

[Reevo8]

You will find that the more you hang off, the less the bike needs to lean to complete a corner at a set speed! Due to centre of gravity. So If you lean/hang off the bike when attempting KD, you are much more likely to get ya knee down without getting anywhere near the limit of your tyres.

Th twitchiness is just due to trying to get your knee down, so you are concentrating on that rather than smoothness!

[Silver]

My advice is to find a long sweeping bend, that you can go into and have the time to adjust you position, bodyweight etc gradually rather than just having to get it right first time as you go in. I found the first corner (Redgrave) at Donington Park as excellent for this. You can go in and shift around loads and because you're still cornering you can still get your knee down even if you mess up the entry. A few goes at that and you'll learn what you can get away with mid-corner and how well you can adjust your position. In the end you'll be able to go into a bend and keep adjusting until your knee touches down

Also it depends on your style. Do you hang off like a monkey, or do you deck the bike out? It is possible to get your knee down with the bike relatively upright, but it feels completely strange.

Have a look at the attached pictures. The first is from Donington with my bike pretty much decked out. In fact, I actually ended up in the gravel on that corner later on in the day because my pegs dug in. I'd never seen the point in adjustable rear sets before that...

The second is from Silverstone and although the picture isn't great you can see the bike isn't over half as much, but my knee is still down.

[streetfighter]

I'll probably say what's already been said, but anyway,

First, choose a constant radius corner with a clear view, not a roundabout.
The only way you'll get yer knee down is to shift you WHOLE body over the seat and get yer arse cheek right off the seat.
Make a pronounced effort to stick your knee out so you FEEL like a GP hero. Don't make any efort to tip your bike over any more than you would normally in a turn, the fact that your weight has shifted will naturally tip the bike a little more.
Once you're in the turn, DON'T BACK OFF THE THROTTLE, either increase the speed or keep it CONSTANT.
If you back off, the gyroscopic effect of the wheels will naturally lift the bike and send you off the road.
Make a few passes doing this, and try to get a picture of it and see what you are doing.
I agree that you need to keep your foot well tucked in, with the ball on the tip of the peg. The "hero-blobs" on the pegs will stop you going over too far.
Got that? So, go back and do it again, and again.
The more proficient you become, the less you'll have to make the effort to stick yer knee out, you'll be having to pull it in!!

[BLOFLY 636]

thanks guys! that second pic is pretty controversial! it looks like your body is just about inline with the bike but your knee is down! I am really restricted to biggish roundabouts here in Australia so I can't really try those big bends you all have in the U.K. I just come home from half a night shift at work and went to my favorite new roundabout it is 2 lanes wide and has only 3 entries and 3 exits. I took the inside lane and leant the bike over a fair amount but kept my knee against the bike and just as I was picking the bike up to exit the roundabout on the right hand corner I glimpsed at the speedo to see a reading of 95kmph! the limit is only 60kmph I was amazed at how fast I was going but now I am freaking out because how fast will I be going when I get my knee down??
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Those bloody footpegs......they ought to do away with em!

[Sparks!]

Dude your knee is down here though, looks it anyway?

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/he_has_his_knee_down.jpg

You look pretty danm confident on that bike if you ask me, a bit tense but looks cool especially with the tarty matching leathers... keep it going mate Nice one.
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[BLOFLY 636]

no sorry people a big mistake there thats not me I am the twitchy sweating stuttering nervous guy on the other green bike you know the one that doesn't have his knee down
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Those bloody footpegs......they ought to do away with em!

[streetfighter]

[Silver]

Okay, look at the two pictures you posted. The first guy (with his knee down) has slid across the bike a lot more than you. You can see that by the fact that your left knee is sticking out from the bike and his is not - he has slid across so there is no way his leg could be like that. It should feel like you are holding yourself up/on the bike with your left calf (when doing a right hander) and your left leg will be flat against the bike, rather than sticking out. This means your arse will be half on/half off the seat and your right knee will be further from the bike and closer to the ground.

[Silver]

Forgot to ask, where about in Oz are you? I've been there a couple of times. If you think you have it bad (I can't see how... ) you should come here where it pisses it down every other day and there seems to be a car for every metre of road!

[Sparks!]

[BLOFLY 636]

[BLOFLY 636]

OH by the way check this out!! https://www.bunbury.wa.gov.au/eoi/bic/BunburyInternationalComplex.htm apparently work will begin in January
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Those bloody footpegs......they ought to do away with em!

[streetfighter]

And finally.....
Make sure you use the right knee sliders. Go for Alpinestars or Wiz plastic. Don't go for leather, they smell good but will rip yer knee off if you bang it down too hard.