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Drinking Coffee whilst driving.

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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Drinking Coffee whilst driving. Reply with quote

I recorded a driver behind me brake hard to avoid hitting me, then while stationary she picks up a cup of coffee (a proper china cup!) and starts drinking.

Now I would have thought this was illegal, but apparently it isn't. Not according to the police anyway.

Quote:

Dear Andrew

Thank you for your submission to Roadsafe London concerning the incident below.
You provided details of the vehicle concerned and all appropriate checks have now been undertaken.
From the information you have provided there does not appear to have been any offences committed. The vehicle in question has not collided with you and is stationary when the driver drinks from the coffee cup.

Kind regards

Mick WOOLSTON PC601TD
On Behalf of ROADSAFE LONDON

-----Original Message-----
----------------------------------------------------------------
Vehicle details
----------------------------------------------------------------
Registration Number:BL52 XTH
Colour: Blue
Make: Vauxhall
Model: Unknown
----------------------------------------------------------------
Driver details
----------------------------------------------------------------
Driver's Name: Unknown
Address: Unknown
Driver Description: White female, twenty to thirty, dark hair.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Your Information
----------------------------------------------------------------
Your Information: Stop-start rush hour traffic, no faster than ten miles per hour.
I have a camera mounted to the back of my motorcycle. I recorded BL52XTH brake very hard to a halt to avoid colliding with me as I slowed to a halt. The camera very clearly shows the driver start drinking from a coffee cup immediately after she stopped.
----------------------------------------------------------------

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-LG-
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Re: Drinking Coffee whilst driving. Reply with quote

Andy_Pagin wrote:
I recorded a driver behind me brake hard to avoid hitting me, then while stationary she picks up a cup of coffee (a proper china cup!) and starts drinking.

Now I would have thought this was illegal, but apparently it isn't. Not according to the police anyway.

Quote:

Dear Andrew

Thank you for your submission to Roadsafe London concerning the incident below.
You provided details of the vehicle concerned and all appropriate checks have now been undertaken.
From the information you have provided there does not appear to have been any offences committed. The vehicle in question has not collided with you and is stationary when the driver drinks from the coffee cup.

Kind regards

Mick WOOLSTON PC601TD
On Behalf of ROADSAFE LONDON

-----Original Message-----
----------------------------------------------------------------
Vehicle details
----------------------------------------------------------------
Registration Number:BL52 XTH
Colour: Blue
Make: Vauxhall
Model: Unknown
----------------------------------------------------------------
Driver details
----------------------------------------------------------------
Driver's Name: Unknown
Address: Unknown
Driver Description: White female, twenty to thirty, dark hair.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Your Information
----------------------------------------------------------------
Your Information: Stop-start rush hour traffic, no faster than ten miles per hour.
I have a camera mounted to the back of my motorcycle. I recorded BL52XTH brake very hard to a halt to avoid colliding with me as I slowed to a halt. The camera very clearly shows the driver start drinking from a coffee cup immediately after she stopped.
----------------------------------------------------------------


Shes stopped, its legal. If she was driving, then thats different, but only if her driving is effected.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anything the fact she'd already had a bit of coffee prior to jumping on the brakes means that her reactions were sharper.

If she didn't have coffee she may have hit you due to an increased reaction time. Wink

More to the point, did she have a saucer?
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Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 13:22 - 13 Feb 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 13:22 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting.
I say this as I think the use of mobile phone law while driving may be put under test with modern technology.

As in a police officer (interview on Radio 5) said a car had to be stopped with engine off for phone to be used. Now cars now have start/stop engine technology. So if in a queue of traffic engine turns off and you can use the phone. So are you 'parked' or 'driving'?

Would appear from the post above police regard a stopped car as parked.

P.S. video didn't play for me. Are you sure it was coffee and not tea or another hot/cold beverage?
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet using a mobile phone is illegal when stationary, even in a car park.
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_Pagin wrote:
And yet using a mobile phone is illegal when stationary, even in a car park.


By law yes, however, you would have to be a real arse for someone to give you a ticket for it.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
P.S. video didn't play for me. Are you sure it was coffee and not tea or another hot/cold beverage?


Should work with Windows Media Player or Mplayer or gnome-mplayer.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_Pagin wrote:
And yet using a mobile phone is illegal when stationary, even in a car park.


Only if you're caught. Wink
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 13:47 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_Pagin wrote:
map wrote:
P.S. video didn't play for me. Are you sure it was coffee and not tea or another hot/cold beverage?
Should work with Windows Media Player or Mplayer or gnome-mplayer.

FYI got to see it in VLC player. Windows Media was just black screen. Jury is still out on whether coffee though. At least I drink mine in a branded McD cup after getting it via the McDrive through Wink
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doggone
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy_Pagin wrote:
And yet using a mobile phone is illegal when stationary, even in a car park.

Citation needed.
Why would that be illegal?
Being drunk in a car while stationary is, because you are still 'in charge' of it.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 14:29 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Andy_Pagin wrote:
And yet using a mobile phone is illegal when stationary, even in a car park.
Citation needed....

Would appear to be ok to use in a car park. Although I suspect car has to be in marked parking bay and not part of the 'road'.

This is as according to The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003 (my highlighting for emphasis)
The Law wrote:
...Mobile telephones

110. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).

(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4)
...

So you have to drive and be on the road.
FWIW drive can also mean ride and paragraph 4 says it's ok to use a 2-way radio.

So my earlier understanding of ok to use when stopped may be wrong (a police officer said it so I'm guilty of expecting them to know the law). Unless of course if you're stopped you are not driving, so it would be ok Brick Wall Head hurting now with legalese overdose.

I've found RoSPA site on mobile phones and
RoSPA wrote:
The Definition of Driving

Under existing law a person may be regarded as "driving" a vehicle while the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. The offence applies to all motor vehicles, including motorcycles, but not apply to pedal cycles.
...but I'd need to see a statute for that definition. If that's the case then using a car with a stop/start engine then you could use mobile phone when stopped (so engine off, e.g. in a traffic queue or at traffic lights).

Please also note it's only motor vehicles, so cyclist can talk and text with impunity.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cup was still in her hand when she moved off, unless she dropped it straight on her lap.

RTA 1988 Section 41D, driving a motor vehicle in a position which does not give proper control

Surely no court in the land would convi...

https://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/770000/images/_774655_bottle300.jpg

Gillian King, presiding [Magistrate], said: ""The reason we have come to this decision [to convict] is you started drinking while stationary and drove off with the bottle still in your hand. This proves you would not have been able to control your vehicle adequately."
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 15:13 - 13 Feb 2014; edited 1 time in total
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the video it's hard to actually know how close she got the rear of the OP's bike. I wouldn't even say she slammed on, some people are always abit heavy on the brake pedal (no touch).

Far as I know there isn't a law againt eating and drinking on the move never mind stopped. The law is there already for people who drive without due care, which I guess this may have come under regardless of the coffee. But from what I saw no offence was committed.

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P.
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:
Far as I know there isn't a law againt eating and drinking on the move never mind stopped. The law is there already for people who drive without due care, which I guess this may have come under regardless of the coffee. But from what I saw no offence was committed.

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Re-read the borgy..

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/41D
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 15:35 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blau Zedong wrote:
Does anyone really give a shit?

Can you legally do that in a car while driving? Confused Wink
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
fozzym wrote:
Far as I know there isn't a law againt eating and drinking on the move never mind stopped. The law is there already for people who drive without due care, which I guess this may have come under regardless of the coffee. But from what I saw no offence was committed.

Thumbs Up


Re-read the borgy..

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/41D


It's subjective though isn't it, "being in control"

Hence the mobile device law, leaves nothing to be subjective about. You hold a mobile device you is breaking da law.
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spooks007
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

In relation to being in proper control it boils down to a simple question really.

Would you pass your driving test whilst not having two hands on the wheel?

There is a case where a female was prosecuted for not in proper control for eating an apple.
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

spooks007 wrote:
In relation to being in proper control it boils down to a simple question really.

Would you pass your driving test whilst not having two hands on the wheel?

There is a case where a female was prosecuted for not in proper control for eating an apple.


No that isn't the question you need to ask!

How would you change gear if you didn't take your hands off the wheel?

It isn't illegal to perform tasks like altering the heater or radio. It's a case of being in control of the vehicle and I don't think many people would say you can never take a hand off the wheel.. Even the coppers are not that stupid.

The question should be and is.....Are you in control of the vehicle?

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spooks007
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes they are exceptions as they form part of the car, but things like cups, packet crisps, apple, mobile phone, sandwich, make up, etc
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Rigga
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was once showing my brother a video on Facebook whilst parked at a red light. I looked to my right and there was a police riot van all inside shaking their heads at me. They didn't for anything though?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why talk in hypotheticals? Look up a bit, to the handy picture of the ladyperson drinking. She was prosecuted and convicted for doing what looks to me the same thing as the tart in the instant video.

Granted before magistrates so not precedent setting, but it shows that the CPS will prosecute and beaks will convict for it.

Might want to refer "Mick WOOLSTON PC601TD" to the above conviction. Tell him that he's only NFA'd it because it wasn't one of his buddies in blue who reported it, they love that. Wink
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Robster
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I did that driver awareness course thing ages ago, the instructor told us that the car has to be parked, engine off, and key out of ignition before you can use a phone/sandwich/masturbate otherwise you can get booked
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just opened up a bag of monster munch and ate the lot while I drove home from work in protest to this thread!

Wiped the bead of sweat from my brow as I approached my drive way.


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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 13 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen several police officers drinking from paper drinks cups while driving. I think it's a case of being sensible about when and where you do it, but ultimately legal or not if it's ok for copper's to drink whilst driving the vehicle it's good for me too!
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