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buying track days jacket

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Random13
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 12 May 2013
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: buying track days jacket Reply with quote
Hi All,

I am planning to buy some leather clothing so can use it in track days and also legal for california school bike.

I have seen some unbranded leather which mention that they have triple etc stiches and the cost of the whole suit is £160-170 compared to £400-500 for dainese leathers.

so three questions,

1. would you think the unbranded ones be just as good ?

2.what is the name of the thing that sticks up which I think is some sort of soft pads at the back of the jacket close to neck? is it required for track days etc? I believe it helps to reduce head movements if fallen form the bike.

3.would you buy 2 piece or 1 piece jacket ? I prefer the 2 piece so can also use it for daily commute .

also are leather jackets warm and water resistant ? This is so If i decided to wear the leather in cold weather compared to my textile jacket with internal thermal stuff.

many thanks
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 16:08 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
1. Some will be as good whereas others will be cheap knockoffs.

2. Aerodynamics and to yourself, you look like a pro.

3. For trackdays you'll need zip together two piece leathers.

Leathers aren't warm and they're not waterproof. For warmth you'll want some type of base layer and for waterproofing you'll want you'll want some waterproofs to wear over the top.
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Random13
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Joined: 12 May 2013
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
is speed hump too much for street? don't want people to look at me the funny way but think should get it while i am spending the money

what is the benefit ?
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Notj7
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I heard speed humps were for radio antennas and giving the best reception possible... but that may just be rubbish. Or not.

Regardless, ride your bike fast and either it'll fit in or nobody will be able to see it in the blur that flies past anyway Wink
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-Matt-
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Random13 wrote:
is speed hump too much for street? don't want people to look at me the funny way but think should get it while i am spending the money

what is the benefit ?
My leathers have one and I street ride in them all the time. Get a few funny looks once in a while off the bike but its quite clearly bike gear. Most people seem to think its some sort of spine/neck saving armour the few times its been commented on - of course you can tell them a cool story about how it makes you go at death defying speeds Wink No idea if it would be of actual use on the street on motorways at 'legal' speeds, possibly.

Leathers aren't warm - especially the ones with perforated areas. That being said i've used leathers all year round in the past with a rainsuit/thermal/under jumpers and tracksuit and been fine. You just need to layer up [allow for this with an extra size up if you intend to use them all year round].

Cheap leathers i'd avoid. Sure some are fine but I wouldn't like to play roulette on the chance if you have an off and find out the stitching comes apart and leaves you sliding down the road without gear suddenly.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
-Matt- wrote:

Cheap leathers i'd avoid. Sure some are fine but I wouldn't like to play roulette on the chance if you have an off and find out the stitching comes apart and leaves you sliding down the road without gear suddenly.

A bit like my Dianese leathers, then.
To (about) quote the local leather repair woman I used to use "barely good enough for a night out".
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
A case of pay more and hope its better than perhaps Razz
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
The advice I normally give is to find some decently heavy looking stuff on ebay and get it altered to fit.

When I was racing I bought 3 suits for under £100 each.
Had the better two altered to fit for around £100 each.
Ended up selling the other one for around what I paid for it a few years later I think (that or it's still sitting around somewhere).
So, £400 or so for two one piece suits that fit as well as you're going to get.

Most economics and a fit is important for keeping yourself in less pieces and so on.
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Ghost
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plenty of weekend warriors out there that never lean their bikes too far away from vertical yet need the full Alpinestars/Dainese/RST one piece suit for posing round the car park in. Invariably when they decide it's their 750 sports bike's lack of power that's holding them back on the group sunday rides and they buy a thou in a different colour the immaculate leathers end up on Ebay as they don't match the new bikes colour scheme. I've had some bargains purchasing leathers from Ebay that are in perfect condition with unworn sliders and are as good as new, so that's what I'd recommend.

I'd rather have a good condition suit from a quality manufacturer second hand, than buy a cheap new one of unknown quality. Not dissing cheap unheard of brands by any means, but I'd do some research before you buy anything from a make you've never heard of.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Re: buying track days jacket Reply with quote
Random13 wrote:


so three questions,

1. would you think the unbranded ones be just as good ?

2.what is the name of the thing that sticks up which I think is some sort of soft pads at the back of the jacket close to neck? is it required for track days etc? I believe it helps to reduce head movements if fallen form the bike.

3.would you buy 2 piece or 1 piece jacket ? I prefer the 2 piece so can also use it for daily commute .




1. Depends if they're CE approved suits? If not assume they won't protect you. Not many CE approved suits on the market funnily enough.

2. It's a hump, usually filled with foam. Won't do anything about from make you look cool.

3. You'll need a minimum of 2 piece zip together for trackdays.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
J7mbo wrote:
I heard speed humps were for radio antennas and giving the best reception possible... but that may just be rubbish. Or not.



Yeah, good to be able to get Five Live on track. Thumbs Up

Originally for aero, then they started putting fluid in them, then the equipment (GPS and accelerometers) for the air bag gubbins has been put into there as well.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Re: buying track days jacket Reply with quote
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
3. You'll need a minimum of 2 piece zip together for trackdays.
Out of interest on that note - does this mean you can track day in two-piece textiles as long as they're zip fastened/armoured to some extent, or is it leathers or nothing.

Heard a lot about the gold ACU stickers as well. Some people saying you can't track without them on the helmet, others saying no one cares, and others saying you can buy them and stick them on any old helmet regardless so its irrelevant Thinking
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Random13
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
so the hump is purely for aerodynamic and nothing to do with protection ?

when you say a size up, is it because the shrink if washed so get the next size up or do they shrink when used on daily basis ?

in terms of Armour, what should it have ? shoulder, knee, hips,elbow and back ? do you also wear your own back protectors ?
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Random13 wrote:
so the hump is purely for aerodynamic and nothing to do with protection?
Pretty much - I guess extra padding anywhere maybe helpful to some extent, but I wouldn't rely on it for protection.

Quote:
when you say a size up, is it because the shrink if washed so get the next size up or do they shrink when used on daily basis
Avoid washing them - in all honestly I've never washed any of my leathers, had one set used heavily for almost 5 years now and have sweated many summers into it and yes its not fragrant - but a bit of de-odouriser spray makes it tollerable. Washing leather removes a lot of the [I think its oils?] from it. You can re-condition it with various products after letting it dry naturally but its a lot of work and potential damage for no real benefit.

I mentioned sizing up in particular for if you intend to ride in leathers in winter as you will need to get a fair chunk of layers inside them to stay sufficiently warm. You can put a little bit externally too, i've worn a hoodie over mine in the past which did help a fair bit on dry days in winter.

Quote:
in terms of Armour, what should it have ? shoulder, knee, hips,elbow and back ? do you also wear your own back protectors ?
I only go for CE approved stuff personally. Most leathers will have armour in the shoulders, elbows, knees, some in the back. Although often it may be sold as 'CE approved armour leathers', but have only CE approved armour in the limbs and perhaps a foam back protector.

Some leathers may not have a pocket in the back as well so you have no option but to get a strap on protector for the back area in that case. Can range from 10 quid for an insert style protector to 100 plus for high end sports back protectors.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
There was some people hanging around bemsee race meetings doing a study in to whether 'race humps' made it more likely for you to break your back in a crash I believe.

Not sure if they ever completed the study or got it published.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 21:33 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Textiles aren't allowed for trackdays, you need leathers.

The sizing up sounds dodgy, if you need a size up for having layers underneath in winter then the leathers aren't going to fit you properly when you don't have those layers.

ACU stickers, given that you can buy the stickers on eBay it's a bit meaningless.

Armour, the leathers need to fit you properly otherwise the armour can move around. What armour it should have is up to you, armour is for protecting against impact so for road use it's much less important than leathers than fit well.
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henry hoover
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 15 May 2013
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did this in my leathers

https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/2891088

https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/2891200

Fairly high speed high side ,I walked away with out a scratch after lots of sliding and rolling. For me I think buy the best you can afford you can't put a put a price on your skin!
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
-Matt- wrote:
Random13 wrote:
so the hump is purely for aerodynamic and nothing to do with protection?
Pretty much - I guess extra padding anywhere maybe helpful to some extent, but I wouldn't rely on it for protection.

Quote:
when you say a size up, is it because the shrink if washed so get the next size up or do they shrink when used on daily basis
Avoid washing them - in all honestly I've never washed any of my leathers, had one set used heavily for almost 5 years now and have sweated many summers into it and yes its not fragrant - but a bit of de-odouriser spray makes it tollerable. Washing leather removes a lot of the [I think its oils?] from it. You can re-condition it with various products after letting it dry naturally but its a lot of work and potential damage for no real benefit.

I mentioned sizing up in particular for if you intend to ride in leathers in winter as you will need to get a fair chunk of layers inside them to stay sufficiently warm. You can put a little bit externally too, i've worn a hoodie over mine in the past which did help a fair bit on dry days in winter.

Quote:
in terms of Armour, what should it have ? shoulder, knee, hips,elbow and back ? do you also wear your own back protectors ?
I only go for CE approved stuff personally. Most leathers will have armour in the shoulders, elbows, knees, some in the back. Although often it may be sold as 'CE approved armour leathers', but have only CE approved armour in the limbs and perhaps a foam back protector.

Some leathers may not have a pocket in the back as well so you have no option but to get a strap on protector for the back area in that case. Can range from 10 quid for an insert style protector to 100 plus for high end sports back protectors.


It's also wise to remember that CE approved armour is not the same as a CE approved suit. CE approved armour is armour only. It makes no promises about the quality of stitching, or leather.

CE approved suit means the entire garment has been tested. There are two levels of CE suit approval. One is for one crash wonders. The higher level is for stuff that can take multiple crashes.

https://www.bksleather.co.uk/ce.htm This page is pretty comprehensive.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Show what I know, didn't even know the suits themselves were CE approved Whistle time to go inspect mine
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
-Matt- wrote:
Show what I know, didn't even know the suits themselves were CE approved Whistle time to go inspect mine


Most big name suits aren't. Don't think any Alpinestars/Dainese are, but it's been a while since I looked at it.

I have a hideout leather suit, higher of the two CE standards. It's heavy, but tough as hell. Even tested it out and it mocked my crashing attempts. Just got it back after being altered and having some elbow sliders put on. It's now 5 years old and got a few more years yet. Cool
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mk1GSF wrote:
Reason there aren't many CE suits is because of the cost involved in testing them.


If a tiny company in a barn (Hideout, and to a degree, Scott and BKS) can afford it, I'm sure Dainese/Alpinestars can. Thumbs Up

They choose not to as it means they might have to sort out their QC and consistently make decent stuff.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 16 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Most big name suits aren't. Don't think any Alpinestars/Dainese are, but it's been a while since I looked at it.

I have a hideout leather suit, higher of the two CE standards. It's heavy, but tough as hell. Even tested it out and it mocked my crashing attempts. Just got it back after being altered and having some elbow sliders put on. It's now 5 years old and got a few more years yet. Cool
Is the upper CE level solely based on re-crashing i.e thickness and strength to absorb a standard off and repeat it, or arguably safer in the first off as well?
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