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Just shows how easily it can all go wrong..

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mikesaa309
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Just shows how easily it can all go wrong.. Reply with quote
This video was posted on Facebook by RoadCraftNottingham. Just puts things into reality with how easily it can all go wrong when riding a bike. Although that said, it wasn't the best place to be overtaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD294yVi6j4
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Re: Just shows how easily it can all go wrong.. Reply with quote
mikesaa309 wrote:
Just puts things into reality with how easily it can all go wrong when riding a bike.


I think head on collisions are pretty serious regardless of the mode of transport. Are you saying you didn't realise what the effect of hitting a large car head-on on a motorbike would be? Maybe you didn't realise that trying to keep up with people who ride above your skill level is a bad idea.

If that's the case and you need that kind of sob story to make you think that riding faster than you can handle whilst overtaking long vehicles on the approach to a blind bend is a bad idea, then do me (and all other road users) a favour and stay off the roads.
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mikesaa309
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Re: Just shows how easily it can all go wrong.. Reply with quote
Poseidon wrote:
mikesaa309 wrote:
Just puts things into reality with how easily it can all go wrong when riding a bike.


I think head on collisions are pretty serious regardless of the mode of transport. Are you saying you didn't realise what the effect of hitting a large car head-on on a motorbike would be? Maybe you didn't realise that trying to keep up with people who ride above your skill level is a bad idea.

If that's the case and you need that kind of sob story to make you think that riding faster than you can handle whilst overtaking long vehicles on the approach to a blind bend is a bad idea, then do me (and all other road users) a favour and stay off the roads.


Didn't mean that at all. I meant and I speak from when I was less experienced that it can easily go wrong when you think it's going to be fine. The rider obviously wrongly accessed the situation and tried to overtake. Quickly though he realized he didn't have the power to get past as quickly as he wanted to and it went from being a successful overtake to a fairly horrific crash with in a matter of seconds.

There's been times I've planned on overtaking a car which you have to do fairly quickly as there is a bend further up on a country road. I've managed to do it several times but if I feel that the bike hasn't got the power to get past quickly then I don't do it. Although I know I can get past if I know it won't get past quickly then I know that there's a huge possibility that there could be a car or even another bike coming tanking round the bend a bit further up by which time would be too late to avoid a crash. Many times no vehicle has come round that corner when I decide not to overtake but I'd rather be safe than dead and there could have easily have been another vehicle coming the other way.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
So you're saying that if you don't think it's safe, you don't overtake? Wow, they should teach everybody that when you're learning to ride/drive.

mikesaa309 wrote:
The rider obviously wrongly accessed the situation and tried to overtake


Obviously? How do you know his thoughts weren't... "My old man will be really impressed when he sees me pull of this tight overtake". And I'm not taking the piss either. I've had many a conversation down the pub with mates where we've discussed the stupid things we've done and how close we came to it all going horribly wrong. If an impressionable youth was listening in on us gloating to each other about our "achievements", they might have been tempted to do the same, not realising that most of our stories were massively embellished to make our todgers appear bigger.

How do we know he didn't miss a gear when kicking it down to get a bit more oomph, the sudden increase in revs, but loss of speed causing him to panic, hitting the brakes and losing control. How do we know that a bee didn't sting him through the seam of his trousers, causing his leg to spasm, jamming the rear brake on causing him to slide out of control.


By all means if you want to sit around watching videos of RTAs in an attempt to reach some philosophical zen about motorbikes and their perils, feel free to do so. All I'm saying is that it doesn't make me realise anything other than what I already know and have known since I was 2... Bad decisions can sometimes lead to bad outcomes.
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mikesaa309
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poseidon wrote:

Obviously? How do you know his thoughts weren't... "My old man will be really impressed when he sees me pull of this tight overtake". And I'm not taking the piss either. I've had many a conversation down the pub with mates where we've discussed the stupid things we've done and how close we came to it all going horribly wrong. If an impressionable youth was listening in on us gloating to each other about our "achievements", they might have been tempted to do the same, not realising that most of our stories were massively embellished to make our todgers appear bigger.

How do we know he didn't miss a gear when kicking it down to get a bit more oomph, the sudden increase in revs, but loss of speed causing him to panic, hitting the brakes and losing control. How do we know that a bee didn't sting him through the seam of his trousers, causing his leg to spasm, jamming the rear brake on causing him to slide out of control.


By all means if you want to sit around watching videos of RTAs in an attempt to reach some philosophical zen about motorbikes and their perils, feel free to do so. All I'm saying is that it doesn't make me realise anything other than what I already know and have known since I was 2... Bad decisions can sometimes lead to bad outcomes.


If he had thought that then he didn't even access the situation for himself. I've done many stupid things thinking it's perfectly safe to overtake here then realizing that all of a sudden there's a car coming. Made enough of these mistakes to know when to overtake and when not too. Even when it maybe safe I sometimes don't in that fact that I know I'll loose power at some point either during or after the overtake both in which make me look like a retard.

The being stung by a bee is fairly unlikely but a yes a possibility. The most likely thing that happened was "my dad overtook just fine, the road is still clear ahead I'll quickly get by him" *goes in for overtake, car appears from round corner, panics slams on the rear brake*. Just a bad judgement that ended horribly wrong. So in that situation it WAS perfectly safe to overtake. No cars coming fairly straight road THINKS he has the power to do it (maybe he didn't consider the power of the bike?) and then the "safe" assessment very quickly becomes a major danger. His lack of road experience meant he failed to realize that this safe overtaking environment CAN become a massive problem. He may have also not known the capabilities of his bike yet.

So back to my previous point but slight reworded. If I see the situation is safe to overtake, I think how quickly can it become unsafe? E.g. right now nothing coming so ideally if I can get past this car quickly it's safe. But as I know my little 125 has the power to get past but not quickly then while at the moment it's safe to overtake, it's suddenly not safe because I'd be exposed to danger for far too long. We don't know how long this guy had been riding but in order to make that kind of judgement you need to fully understand the capabilities of your vehicle.

I once didn't know the capabilities. I just assumed I'm on a bike it will beat cars easy. For ages I rode like a twat but I soon come to realize how under powered my bike is and I know when safe can quickly become unsafe.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
mikesaa309 wrote:
If I see the situation is safe to overtake, I think how quickly can it become unsafe? E.g. right now nothing coming so ideally if I can get past this car quickly it's safe. But as I know my little 125 has the power to get past but not quickly then while at the moment it's safe to overtake, it's suddenly not safe because I'd be exposed to danger for far too long. We don't know how long this guy had been riding but in order to make that kind of judgement you need to fully understand the capabilities of your vehicle.


I still don't get the point you're trying to make. What you're saying is that even when you fully risk asses a situation, it can quickly go horribly wrong... Is that right?

Here's a story for you. A guy driving a 4x4 along a road in clear, dry conditions, minding his own business, a full 20mph below the posted speed limit and... BAM... coming out of a blind bend there's a biker in the middle of his lane. No time to do anything but crunch the poor fuckers skull under his wheels.

Sound familiar? So even when you make all the right decisions, you still end up killing someone. Puts it into reality how quickly it can all go wrong when you're driving a car in a perfectly safe and legal manner.
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mikesaa309
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poseidon wrote:

I still don't get the point you're trying to make. What you're saying is that even when you fully risk asses a situation, it can quickly go horribly wrong... Is that right?


My point is he was I presume fairly inexperienced maybe he had only been riding for a week.

From my own personal experiences, when you first get on a bike especially when you are 17 like I was, you feel that your bike is one of the fastest things around and you don't fully think about things.

Maybe he didn't consider the "what if's" and just looked at the current situation which seemed safe. Which it probably would have been on a powerful bike. He may not have known the power or lack of power of his bike. If he did fully know what he was doing would he have even gone in for the overtake? It obviously wasn't the cars fault if it was below the speed limit. if the cars were speeding then it could have contributed to making a safe situation become dangerous quicker.

But you're right there was nothing the car driver could do but it still goes to show how what seems to be a perfectly safe situation can go horribly wrong within seconds. I saw another video of a car dash cam in russia. he was behind a lorry on a long sweeping left hand bend and it seemed perfectly fine. Within about 5 seconds a bike coming the other way was going way to fast for the bend and hit the lorry head on, you could see the blood smear across the road. So I guess my point is that it just goes to show and reminds you at how quickly things go wrong.

The times you ride or I guess also drive about and it seems perfectly fine. Does it ever cross your mind that the next bend you go round could possibly be something that will cause a crash? Maybe not even your fault. I guessing you don't or not often anyway. But watching something like that just puts things in perspective at how a seemingly safe, normal journey can go horribly wrong ever so quickly.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
mikesaa309 wrote:
The times you ride or I guess also drive about and it seems perfectly fine. Does it ever cross your mind that the next bend you go round could possibly be something that will cause a crash? Maybe not even your fault. I guessing you don't or not often anyway.

No. It doesn't. That would be the same as saying the next flight of stairs I come across might paralyse me if I fall down them, or the next ice-hockey game I play might leave me with brain damage. I don't deal in what ifs. I deal with living my life and not worrying about stuff like that.

mikesaa309 wrote:
I saw another video of a car dash cam in russia. he was behind a lorry on a long sweeping left hand bend and it seemed perfectly fine. Within about 5 seconds a bike coming the other way was going way to fast for the bend and hit the lorry head on, you could see the blood smear across the road

Maybe if you watched less videos of death and more videos of other things, you might spend less time being bothered by what might happen. I spent my afternoon looking through the track listings of all the NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC albums released in the 90s, picking out my favourite tunes and watching those videos. If you don't fancy that, the ultimate dog tease is quite funny.

Lighten up man. We're all going to die eventually. No amount of worrying is going to stop that happening. Whether it's through a momentary lapse in concentration during your youth or a degenerative disease in your old age, worrying about it wont change that fact.
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mikesaa309
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poseidon wrote:

Lighten up man. We're all going to die eventually. No amount of worrying is going to stop that happening. Whether it's through a momentary lapse in concentration during your youth or a degenerative disease in your old age, worrying about it wont change that fact.


I get what you're saying but I'm 19 I don't plan to die just yet if I can help it. So if i'm planing on overtaking a car I tend to think "What if".
As you pointed out you could walk outside the house and have a car run into you but somethings we still have some control over.

I don't always watch motorcycle crashes though I have seen a lot. It makes me realize what mistakes can be made most of which though are people trying to pull wheelies. But by knowing the possible mistakes I know not to make them. May sound retarded to you and others but helps me reduce the risk of me having a crash but like you said no amount of worrying or learning will stop you having a crash. I just want to reduce that chance as much as I possibly can. I've experienced first hand at how quickly things can go wrong mainly because I misjudged a situation but some of those things nearly got me killed and has turned me into a bit of a pussy.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nothing wrong with trying to better prepare yourself for the real world conditions, but "shocking videos" of things going horribly wrong aren't necessary to make me think about road safety. Maybe it's the difference in our ages, or maybe it's because I've spent in excess of 60hours a week at times on the roads (I used to drive for a living), but I ride the roads to the conditions and do what I believe is safe at the time. I take risks, sure. It was taking a risk that caused me to fall off the zx9 and break my collarbone. It hasn't made me any more aware of my mortality though, nor has that video.
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mikesaa309
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 24 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm still always aware that I can get killed riding a bike or doing anything in life really. Just don't think about it all that often. But when I see videos like this it brings it to the front of my mind at how easily it can happen.
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