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Can police see power of a bike on the V5?

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Aprilia-RS-125
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Can police see power of a bike on the V5? Reply with quote

I've just bought an Aprilia RS 125 and am doing my CBT tomorrow as my previous one ran out. The bike has been delivered today and I've only now seen that the log book states 21kw rather than the standard (learner legal) 11kw. So the question is, if the police run a check on the reg no. can they see the power of the bike? I have a feeling they can only check tax, MOT, insurance etc but have been advised they may be able to see the power of the bike which would obviously be a problem. Any advice appreciated.
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unluckyluke
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they can't I would imagine your insurance company will and therefore you probably wont be able to insure it on a cbt.
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SQL
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a restriction cert stating 14,6 BHP
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Aprilia-RS-125
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have insured the bike and they didn't question it. So they must not be able to see the power details.

Where would I get a restriction certificate? Sorry if that's a dumb question.
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Az
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they can, I rode an italian NSR125 (imported) that was never restricted and I was pulled over twice, not once did they ask if my bike was restricted or showed any interest in its power output.
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SQL
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make one on MS word, if you have insured it then its down to you to prove that you are not riding outside your licence entitlement terms i.e don't worry about it,
as long as the police car following you doesn't flag the bike for no insurance or tax/mot the you probably won't get stopped unless riding like a wang.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

SQL wrote:
its down to you to prove that you are not riding outside your licence entitlement terms


No, it's down to them to prove that you are riding outside the license
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SQL
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilDawson8270 wrote:
SQL wrote:
its down to you to prove that you are not riding outside your licence entitlement terms


No, it's down to them to prove that you are riding outside the license


Ah I always thought it was the other way around.
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Boris the spider
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly not something I have looked into.
Neither has an ex traffic dept colleague.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

SQL wrote:


Ah I always thought it was the other way around.


They have to prove you have committed an offence, it is not your duty to prove you haven't.
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aprilia-RS-125 wrote:
I have insured the bike and they didn't question it. So they must not be able to see the power details.

Can't help thinking that's unwise. I'm not thinking about the police but the insurers. Not telling them that (for example) you've got an aftermarket but entirely legal exhaust might be defensible. Not telling them that you've got a whole different class of bike that's twice as powerful as it's supposed to be? Won't look good. If you bin it (or are knocked off) and the insurers find out it's not the bike they thought they were insuring you'll be screwed.

Of course, I realise you're not planning to have an accident, but nobody leaves the house in the morning thinking "yeah, think I'll have an accident today". It happens all the same.
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Aprilia-RS-125
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for everyone's replies, that's really helpful. It's probably sensible to do my A2 test so I am fully legal to ride this bike, but I'm reassured it won't be too much of a problem in the meantime.

Slowlydoesit - I see what you're saying but I don't think they'd have a leg to stand on. I haven't claimed anywhere that the bike is less powerful than it is. It's just an Aprilia RS 125 and that's all they wanted to know.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a slightly different note. Is 21KW the standard output for this model? If so, would the person instructing you on your CBT be aware and/or give two hoots if you turn up on one?
Would he ask for a restriction certificate?

One would assume that presumably these guys have some knowledge of what does and does not fall into the standard permitted set up. (If nothing else because it would grease their pockets by saying 'sorry, no can do mate.....but...we do have a nice bike that you can legally ride whilst under our wing and it'll only set you back 50 ponds')

I'm just curious as to how much bureaucracy filters down to the sharp end. It strikes me that there are an awful lot of cans and cannots but just what is the point of them if absolutely nobody has a clue whether Mr Learner is actually riding within the letter of the law, or is it just a paperwork exercise to grease the palms of the 'old boy' network? Maybe some of the CBT chaps on here may know more and care to reply?
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aprilia-RS-125 wrote:
Slowlydoesit - I see what you're saying but I don't think they'd have a leg to stand on. I haven't claimed anywhere that the bike is less powerful than it is. It's just an Aprilia RS 125 and that's all they wanted to know.

Your licence entitles you to ride a bike restricted to 11kW. You have a 21kW bike, so effectively you don't have a valid licence for this particular vehicle. I assume therefore that you're currently in breach of the law. (Although I'm no lawyer - anybody else with proper knowledge here?)

I doubt the police are going to catch you out. What are they going to do, dyno your bike on the spot? On the other hand, if you need to claim for an accident it's hard to think of a better excuse for your insurers to reject your claim than "policy holder did not have a licence". And if that were to happen - quite apart from the possibility of personal liability for any damage caused - you'd struggle to find anybody to insure you for the next several years. Also consider fines and points on (or loss of) licence for riding without insurance.

I'm not having a go at you for the fun of it, I'm just pointing out that the risk/reward ratio is unfavourable. The potential benefit is small: you just save the cost of getting the bike restricted to fit the terms of your licence. On the other side of the scales you have risks that look pretty sizeable.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:45 - 06 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilDawson8270 wrote:
They have to prove you have committed an offence, it is not your duty to prove you haven't.

Correct.

However, if a copper can form a reasonable belief that the bike is being ridden otherwise than in accordance with the rider's license, he can seize it.

The belief doesn't even have to be particularly reasonable.

It's very, very unlikely to be an issue though. Just don't get stopped nudging 3 figures.
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
if you do get it insured (without declaring the bikes power output) & ride it on a CBT, then you are riding a bike illegally.
21kw (which is usually printed on V5 AND on the tin plate on frame) is 28bhp, therefore bike is a FP power version.

get pulled for any random check by police or have an accident, it may well come back & bite you on the arse.
& yes im aware its quite common for riders on CBT to ride bikes over 15bhp, but that doesnt mean its legal. some police forces in uk even have mobile units which can test a bikes bhp (dyno)

you pays your money & you takes your chances. i wouldnt.

perhaps the most re-assuring thing is, the bike is full power from dealer & therefore should have been done correctly,

cheers,
GAZ
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 07:13 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:


The belief doesn't even have to be particularly reasonable.



Christ, there's more uninformed bollox talked on that forum than you could possibly find here in General, with a couple of professional be-right's to keep it churning over.

copper bird wrote:

No, Traffic offences are not crimes....a criminal offence is something like theft, breach of the peace, assault, rape etc.

Any breach of traffic law is an offence, yes, but not criminal...


So drink driving and causing death whilst unfit through drink/drugs are not crimes?
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if the insurance can see that it's a full power version (which they probably can), they'll still issue you insurance. You crash and they just go "woah, you said it was restricted, no pay out". So you've basically paid for a useless piece of paper.

...Like most of us Rolling Eyes
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
Even if the insurance can see that it's a full power version (which they probably can), they'll still issue you insurance. You crash and they just go "woah, you said it was restricted, no pay out". So you've basically paid for a useless piece of paper.

...Like most of us Rolling Eyes


1) Can't be seen from the feed most insurers see, so they probably can't
2) It'd probably cost more in adjusters, inspectors, legal and FOS complaint fees than the pony bike is worth anyway
3) If you did happen to quadraspaz a couple of our school-children / future brain surgeons then the insurer would have to pay out for it anyway, so it wouldn't be a particularly useless piece of paper to those that are receiving full time care from it.
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
If you did happen to quadraspaz a couple of our school-children / future brain surgeons then the insurer would have to pay out for it anyway, so it wouldn't be a particularly useless piece of paper to those that are receiving full time care from it.

That's interesting. Is this an RTA insurer issue? If so then that together with the MIB would seem to be provide cover for any victims, but it would still leave the OP in a world of hurt, legally speaking.
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

slowlydoesit wrote:

That's interesting. Is this an RTA insurer issue? If so then that together with the MIB would seem to be provide cover for any victims, but it would still leave the OP in a world of hurt, legally speaking.


Yes, either A75 or RTA insurer.

Legally speaking the 'insured' could be pursued for the losses. But since people that tend to ride £1500 bikes on misrepresented insurance papers don't tend to be multi-millionaires there wouldn't be an awful lot of point going after them.
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Legally speaking the 'insured' could be pursued for the losses. But since people that tend to ride £1500 bikes on misrepresented insurance papers don't tend to be multi-millionaires there wouldn't be an awful lot of point going after them.

Well, except to encourage the others not to do likewise?

Agreed, unless he's a wealthy individual the insurers wouldn't retrieve much as a lump sum, but presumably they could get a county court judgement requiring the OP to repay it back by installments over a period of years or even decades. A useful little income stream for the insurer if you multiply it by thousands of offenders. I guess the OP could declare bankruptcy to avoid such an outcome but that's not going to be any fun either.

Whatever, this is all hypothetical but it just seems odd to me that people risk such bleak scenarios when avoiding them is neither difficult nor expensive. I guess this "nah, don't be such a wuss, it'll be fine" attitude is why we have people driving around uninsured.
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

slowlydoesit wrote:

Whatever, this is all hypothetical but it just seems odd to me that people risk such bleak scenarios when avoiding them is neither difficult nor expensive. I guess this "nah, don't be such a wuss, it'll be fine" attitude is why we have people driving around uninsured.


it's a little bit of that....

And a lot of this:
Quote:
So you've basically paid for a useless piece of paper. Rolling Eyes


And some more to do with this:

Quote:
OUTRAGE £500 a year?! the vehicle is only worth £500!


And just general negativity towards insurance as a whole. Justified /unjustified negativity - doesn't really matter - it's still going to be there. And it breeds the '£500 for nothing' attitude because, 9 and a half times out of 10, it never gets used. Hey ho.
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