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What's Your Vote Really Worth?

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Benno
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PostPosted: 05:18 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's 4am and I'm feeling like posting something controversial that will piss people off. People of Britain, your votes are worth nothing. Not only because of the terrible electoral system we have.

I am of the opinion that votes are worthless if the voter has no power to enforce his vote.

In other words, if the voter doesn't own a gun. If the voter is unarmed.

In order to be truly democratic, the voters need to be able to have their say through voting. But what is a vote and what does voting hope to achieve? A vote is just an idea, a meaningless tick on a meaningless piece of paper. It can be ignored, the promises made in order to secure the vote can be broken, an election can be fraudulent. But when the voters are armed their votes have a foundation of power. Why do we do what the government says? Because it has the power to punish us if we don't. Why does the government do what we say? Hmm. Often it doesn't, does it? Oh golly no! The media will criticise them! The media, who totally represent public opinion and aren't simply dictating to the public what public opinion is!

An unarmed voter is a powerless voter, we live in a tyranny that is apparently less of a tyranny once every 5 years. This is part of my philosophical argument for gun ownership.


Anyway, apologies for going on a rant in your thread OP. Please Kari-On.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

This week it's been the student union leadership elections. Or something like that. I'm not actually sure. It's just a load of people in the central square of the campus with big banners and colourful t-shirts asking people to vote for them. No-one really has a fucking clue what the whole thing is about.

Microcosm of modern politics!
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
This week it's been the student union leadership elections. Or something like that. I'm not actually sure. It's just a load of people in the central square of the campus with big banners and colourful t-shirts asking people to vote for them. No-one really has a fucking clue what the whole thing is about.

Microcosm of modern politics!


My mate's idea of this is to "vote for the one I'd most want to bang" because we're post grads and to the SU, we pretty much don't exist. They're all lefty liberal hippy douches who have come to Leeds on Daddy's money to rough it for a few years with the northerners ... fark off with your election bollocks.

As for a response to OP

I'm voting this year, for the Queen.
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G
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benno wrote:
Guns

There is a big difference between being allowed to own guns and being able to force public figures to do what you want them to.

Lots of countries with incredibly questionable political systems (ie Russia) do allow gun ownership. Often it just means the people in power have bigger guns Smile.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.033, "ultra safe". I just spoil my FPTP ballots.

The thing is, whichever monkey nuScotchLabur pin a red rosette on tends to get very close to a plurality of the vote, so it is (almost) representative of the electorate in my area. Welcome to the tyranny of the (near) majority.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.330
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
There is a big difference between being allowed to own guns and being able to force public figures to do what you want them to.

Lots of countries with incredibly questionable political systems (ie Russia) do allow gun ownership. Often it just means the people in power have bigger guns Smile.


We should all be allowed... nay required to carry nuclear weapons. Without them society simply cannot function and we will never have representation.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benno wrote:
It's 4am and I'm feeling like posting something controversial that will piss people off. People of Britain, your votes are worth nothing. Not only because of the terrible electoral system we have.

I am of the opinion that votes are worthless if the voter has no power to enforce his vote.

In other words, if the voter doesn't own a gun. If the voter is unarmed.

In order to be truly democratic, the voters need to be able to have their say through voting. But what is a vote and what does voting hope to achieve? A vote is just an idea, a meaningless tick on a meaningless piece of paper. It can be ignored, the promises made in order to secure the vote can be broken, an election can be fraudulent. But when the voters are armed their votes have a foundation of power. Why do we do what the government says? Because it has the power to punish us if we don't. Why does the government do what we say? Hmm. Often it doesn't, does it? Oh golly no! The media will criticise them! The media, who totally represent public opinion and aren't simply dictating to the public what public opinion is!

An unarmed voter is a powerless voter, we live in a tyranny that is apparently less of a tyranny once every 5 years. This is part of my philosophical argument for gun ownership.


Anyway, apologies for going on a rant in your thread OP. Please Kari-On.


You've just summed up how I feel about "human rights". Without the means for everyday people to defend themselves, what are they but words on a bit of paper.

"Well I wanted to massacre this village, we had them surrounded but then some guy came out with this bit of paper stating their Human Rights so we had to stop and go home. What a bummer, better luck next time eh?"
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
You've just summed up how I feel about "human rights". Without the means for everyday people to defend themselves, what are they but words on a bit of paper.

"Well I wanted to massacre this village, we had them surrounded but then some guy came out with this bit of paper stating their Human Rights so we had to stop and go home. What a bummer, better luck next time eh?"


You realise 'human rights' are not targeted at interpersonal interactions? They're aimed at governments and corporations. Good luck with your pea shooter against them.

Your story simply becomes: "Well I wanted to massacre this village with my Apache squadron, we had them surrounded but then some guy came out with this little revolver so we had to stop and go home. What a bummer, better luck next time eh?"
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.600


Therefore I have the power to vote for one scum bag or another scum bag both of which have their strings pulled by the same corporate masters who pay them bribes.
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groovylee
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.077


Meh.
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mr jamez
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.771

Muhaha, grovel peasants Cool
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanna know what Korns is.

Bet it can't be represented in either yellow or green blobs Laughing .
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.218.


Not all is lost though, I'm moving house...


0.096... balls.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Bootle, one person does not really have one vote, they have the equivalent of 0.003 votes.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Re: What's Your Vote Really Worth? Reply with quote

How much are you offering?
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swampy
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.919 bitches... or 3.64x the voting power of the average prole...
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Knightsy
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an immigrant? Fuck all Laughing

Don't think I'm missing much from the looks of it though Rolling Eyes
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Benno
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

You realise 'human rights' are not targeted at interpersonal interactions? They're aimed at governments and corporations. Good luck with your pea shooter against them.

Your story simply becomes: "Well I wanted to massacre this village with my Apache squadron, we had them surrounded but then some guy came out with this little revolver so we had to stop and go home. What a bummer, better luck next time eh?"


What is guerilla warfare and insurgency[/quote]
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
You realise 'human rights' are not targeted at interpersonal interactions? They're aimed at governments and corporations. Good luck with your pea shooter against them.

Your story simply becomes: "Well I wanted to massacre this village with my Apache squadron, we had them surrounded but then some guy came out with this little revolver so we had to stop and go home. What a bummer, better luck next time eh?"


You're right, you can wipe people off the planet with modern weapons of way. It's very hard to police state them though using the same tools.

You can't black-bag someone from their house in the dead of night with an apache. An abrams tank can't enforce an no-assembly edict. A tomahawk missile can't pick people out an individual in the street and drag them in the back of a van.

All these things need people, and people can be stopped by bullets.

If there's one thing iraq and afghan shows is that killing people just makes the backlash stronger. Plenty of people who weren't interested in fighting to begin with, find their opinion changes after brother/sister/mum/dad gets killed.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.077, a solid conservative seat. Meh.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
You're right, you can wipe people off the planet with modern weapons of way. It's very hard to police state them though using the same tools.

You can't black-bag someone from their house in the dead of night with an apache. An abrams tank can't enforce an no-assembly edict. A tomahawk missile can't pick people out an individual in the street and drag them in the back of a van.

All these things need people, and people can be stopped by bullets.

If there's one thing iraq and afghan shows is that killing people just makes the backlash stronger. Plenty of people who weren't interested in fighting to begin with, find their opinion changes after brother/sister/mum/dad gets killed.


Despite a couple of your examples being off I get your general point... But...

Shoot a state official for invading your house or telling you to move on and you are a 'dangerous' criminal and you will get shot. The gun would not be your saviour, it would be your downfall.

Don't get me wrong though - I am pro weapon ownership, I'm just under no illusions that a gun will save you against the state. At any point where your opponent can spend more on weaponry trying to kill you than you earn in a year you are not onto a winner.

As for Benno's guerrilla warfare... Things have gone a lot further than the mild screwing over we're used to in the west before that happens. And not many guerrilla fighters make it.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear.

It appears relocating has raped me of any political influence.

Previously in Bristol 1.003

Now in Bournemouth 0.221

There goes my chances of deciding which colour tie gets to piss away my taxes Crying or Very sad
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Benno
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 07 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
smegballs wrote:
You're right, you can wipe people off the planet with modern weapons of way. It's very hard to police state them though using the same tools.

You can't black-bag someone from their house in the dead of night with an apache. An abrams tank can't enforce an no-assembly edict. A tomahawk missile can't pick people out an individual in the street and drag them in the back of a van.

All these things need people, and people can be stopped by bullets.

If there's one thing iraq and afghan shows is that killing people just makes the backlash stronger. Plenty of people who weren't interested in fighting to begin with, find their opinion changes after brother/sister/mum/dad gets killed.


Despite a couple of your examples being off I get your general point... But...

Shoot a state official for invading your house or telling you to move on and you are a 'dangerous' criminal and you will get shot. The gun would not be your saviour, it would be your downfall.

Don't get me wrong though - I am pro weapon ownership, I'm just under no illusions that a gun will save you against the state. At any point where your opponent can spend more on weaponry trying to kill you than you earn in a year you are not onto a winner.

As for Benno's guerrilla warfare... Things have gone a lot further than the mild screwing over we're used to in the west before that happens. And not many guerrilla fighters make it.


A gun won't save you against the state when you're on your own. But we're not talking about one motorcyclist pissed off about a speeding fine. The crucial thing is that it makes an insurgency against an unjust or illegitimate violent government easier.

In some US states it is actually legal to shoot police unlawfully entering your home. It's always been something I've wondered - if an unjust law is created and your home raided since you are guilty of breaking it, and you fight off the police by shooting them and fleeing, and the law is then repealed...are you guilty of murder or innocent since you were defending yourself against state oppression?

We do need a lot more overt oppression before we will see anything of the sort here in the West, though. It's all very subtle these days - the internet is the perfect place for us to vent our frustrations and pacify us so that we go to work and behave nicely and obediently the next day. Meanwhile they can use it to spy on us and label us as enemies of the state/counter-revolutionaries/terrorists.



Anyway...the "guns won't save you against tanks and fighter jets lololol stupid gun nut" argument is moronic and deliberately misses the point.
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