Need to learn and get a bike by September - advice needed!

[KatP26]

Hello all

I'm brand new to this forum. I'm afraid I know absolutely nothing about bikes so I'd be so grateful for some help from someone who knows their stuff!

I got a place at a university starting late September 2014 and I'm told I can't keep my car on campus. For personal reasons, I'd feel really trapped if I don't have a vehicle on campus that can get me home when I need. The uni is in the middle of nowhere so public transport would involve at least 5 changes on buses/trains!

BUT the uni says I don't require a permit for a moped/motorbike so I've decided to look into the option.

I'm 22 and have had a full car driving licence for 5 years. I just need a two-wheeled vehicle to get me home (about an hour and a half down the road from uni).

My concern is that the main route home is mostly motorway. Are certain mopeds/motorbikes not able to go on the motorway? Will motorway riding involve more tests? (You can tell I'm new, can't you?!)

I just need some really basic information from someone who knows bikes.

In an ideal world I want to learn how to ride a basic bike (!) in a few months and buy a second-hand one ready for late September. Is this likely, do you reckon? What would you advise I get and what are the steps to getting a licence?

Many thanks in advance, if anyone can point me in the right direction it's you guys

Kat

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

This is where the sticky threads come in handy. Top of the this forum thread list. Can't be arsed to post links.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Teflon-Mike]

OK, start here:-
I want to Ride a Motorbike - Where Do I start?

First; 5 years driving a car means bog all. Dont presume that just cos you have passed car tests, riding a bike is just getting used to changing gear with your foot; it ent. You have some transferable experience; but, start from the beginning; you know bog all about bikes, and treat learning to ride as something completely new; and if something makes sense or helps because you can drive a car, great. Otherwise, likely to miss some important difference THINKING you know it all, when you dont. Keep open mind. Presumption is the mother of all fuck-ups and all that; and you dont get too many chances to fuck up when you is on a bike.

Second: Mopeds. By legal defanition, a powered two wheel vehicle with an engine displacement less than 50cc that cannot achieve a speed greater than 30mph. If its more than 50cc or can go more than 40mph, legally, its not a moped, whatever it ight say on the log-book.

Third: Motorways. as car driver, familiar with the highway code..... you ought to be aware that a motorway is merely a duel carriageway to which 'motorway regulations' are applied. Bit of boning up for your thoery... what are 'Motorway Regulations'... I'll give you three for starters; 1) No Pedestrians, Horses or Horse Drawn vehicles 2) No Bicycles or Mopeds 3) No Learner Drivers

You can ride a 50cc 'motorcycle' on a motorway if you wish, provided you hold a full motorcycle licence, and the 50cc motorcycle is legally declared on the V5 as a motorcycle, not a moped; ie; not meeting restrictions to be a moped, and able to do more than 30odd mph. You probably wouldn't want to; or be advised to... but it IS legal.

So, no L-Plates... means IF you want to use motorways, you need to pass tests. See link; you will need to do the Theory/Hazard for a motorcycle; one you did for car licence dont count. After that, two practical tests; one play-ground excersise round cones, known as 'Mod 1', second, 'Mod 2' like you did for the car, riding round real streets; only examiner wont be sat next to you or on your passenger seat; they'll be following you on another bike (possibly in a car, but usually on another bike) talking to you over a radio in your helmet.

There are three licence entitlements you may gain on passing tests.
A1 - lightweight licence. You have to be 17+ to test, and do them on an A1 'complient' motorcycle, you provide. (Basically has to be full 125cc capable of more than 60mph) Lets you ride motorcycles up to 125cc and meeting same performance restrictions as for L-Plates.
A2 - commonly reffered to as the 'Restricted-Licence'. You have to be 19+ to test, and tests are same as for A1, but done on A2 'complient' motorcycle, which you cannot legally ride on the road ahead of tests, unsupervised. Means doing a DAS type course for the most part.
A3 or Unrestricted A depending who's blurb you look at. The full-fat ride what you like licence. Again, exact same set of tests as for A1 and A2, but this time done on a bike meeting A3/ URA req's. Think that some amend to specs came into force recently; but basically means a 600cc bike with over 60bhp or something of that order. Test eligibility demands you be over 24, or have held A2 for minimum of two years.

What this means to you.

You cant go for a full fat ride what you like licence for another two years. Even if you did the A2, by the time the A2 + two year eligibility came up you'd be over 24 anyway.

Which begs suggestion that doing an A2 course and stumping up probably £800-1200 of student loans to have a crack at getting that half licence...is an expensive way to not get all you could for your money, when beer, debauchery and general student chinanegins beckon. Wait it out, spend same money, get the full monty for your money.

Points to 125's, which you can ride, after validating your learners entitlement, for up to two years, doing a Compulsary Basic Training course. Costs about £100 or so give or take.

Lets you ride a 125, which can be a genuine as fast as anything in this country is allowed to go 'proper' motorcycle.

You wont be able to use motorways though, unless you pass tests. Which is a good idea anyway, whether you use motorways or not.

Usefulness of 125's is you can ride them before testing; which means you can get some practice in, bone up and try for your licence 'self trained' paying only for the tests, that cost at the moment tad under £130 all in, if you pass each first time, saving chunk of course fees and bike hire costs to train and test on something bigger, you cant get any other use from.

HOWEVER, training is GOOD. Self-Teaching, is the school of hard knocks, and on bikes them knocks can sore hurt. Also tends to teach you not what to do right, so much as what not to do wrong... next time.

And sooner you do some, the better. Learn to do stuff right, right at the start.

Next up. AS a student; money will probably be tight. 125';s score well here. They can be pretty cheap to run. Tax is £16 a year; insurance for an under 25 with no no claims and no licence, usually in the hundreds not the thousands. They usually return good MPG up near, the 100 miles a gallon mark, at least on paper; still good in the real world though if you dont get as good as book says; whilst tyres tend to last long and be cheap when they are needed; like wise other service spares, and compared to bigger bikes, 125's tend to be simple things with uncomplucated single cylinder engines, that are pretty easy to DIY service and maintain, if you have a bit of common cocum.

I ran a 125 through two and a half years of uni... umpety decades ago.... was nice and easy on the grant cheque, and I was able to be out and about doing stuff, when mates with cars were crying into thier beer, moaning they had no petrol, or hoping beyond all reason to fix a knackered radiator pooring pancake mix in the top, and such like!

Motorways? I did, when I had passed tests. Not the nicest place to be on a lightweight, BUT stick to 55mph and shelter between a couple of trucks... and HEY! Manchester to Plymouth on less than a tank of fuel!

Same run, prior to ditching the L's had been completed, without Sat-Nav by an old fashioned technique known as 'navigation', following a map and street signs down roads that were actually NICE to ride along, on which M-Way regs were not in force.

Possible to get most places, apart from motorways service stations, in this country WITHOUT using a motorway, or even a duel carriageway, IF you have the inclination.

Takes a long time... but hey, its not like you got to WORK for a living is it! What you got? 16 hours of lectures a week for 30 weeks of a year? Four hundred and eighty hours, a YEAR.... know folk that do more hours than that a MONTH... under pressure! Peoples lives on the line! What pressure you got? Sleeping off last nights hang-over and hoping some-one has notes you can crib later! and you wonder why every-one says it'll be the best time of your life!

So my advice is think about 125's and doing the A1 licence for one so that you MAY if you choose use motorways; but hour and a half? Legal M-Way speds thats barely 100 miles, max. Learn to navigate, buy a cheap sat-nav; Use A-Roads, and actually learn to ride, rather than play follow my leader; you'll have more fun, and what? 50mph, add 20min half an hour to the journey. What the fuck; its not like you have to work for a living; and your young, you have a whole life time ahead of you, you dont have to do it all right here right now; it'll STILL be faster than wasting your time stood at a bust stop or on a railway platform; and Rushing is quick way to get hurt on a motorbike. Take your time; enjoy the journey.

Other advice.

Insurance. Probably not going to be as cheap as you might hope; and as a student its going to be bumped.. they are high risk drivers... lack of responsibility and wild drug crazed lifestyles and all that. You will also probably get hammered as you will have to declare 'Not kept at home adress' so premium will be based on Uni Halls post-code, not mummy & daddy's. You also wont be able to declare the bike garaged, as Uni halls dont tend to have them. Also slightly harder to do the old 'Its my Mums car, I just use it occassionally' trick... will have to be in your name. Hits you may have to take, there's really no way around it apart from simply lying.

Next; presuming you aren;t already running the 'Its Mummy's car' trick and have your own insurance policy and No-Claims bonus on it; GENERALLY No-claims is not transfereable between car and bike policies; they are seperate 'streams'. Some insurance companies who offer car and bike insurance MAY accept Car NCB on a bike policy, or vica versa; but not garanteed, and ones that may, tend to only offer policies on bikes up to 125cc, and they may not be the most competative anyway; so you mighht have to take the hit of starting 'clean sheet' without any discount as well.

Which leads to next point on insurance; if you DO have a stream of car insurance in your name, with discount on it currently... if let that lapse while riding a bike instead... it CAN lapse before you get another car. Different rules with different companies; but three to five year record retension; and if they cant find record of you ever having car No-claims they wont give you any, should you return to a car after uni.

That particular one came as a bit of a ball-kick to many of my mates, who had either been perpetually 'borrowing' mummy's car, or who had given up on the old banger they had in favour of the Young Persons Rail card. Out of uni, few months moaning it was all a waste of time, no one will give them a job as they have no experience; year after that on a 'grad scheme' paid penies and worked to the bone; then put on the propper pay roll, and "Hey I can afford to get a GTi!" till they came to get insurance quotes!

May be worth looking at that one. While I was on the bike at Uni; I had a Moggy Minor sat in a barn at my grandparents; untaxed, un-MOT's and basically rotten and getting more so... BUT insured. simply suspended TPO cover, declaring it 'off the road' without cancelling the policy; cost me something like £30 a year, I think. You dont even actually need an actual car; just the registration; its called a 'ghost', and quite legal, provided you dont try and claim it nicked or anything as that's'insurance fraud'. But nothing stopping you pay for a cheap policy there's nill risk of a claim on, JUST to maintain or build NCB.

Some ponder points and further research for you. Back to bikes. and following on from insurance.... SECURITY.

You are going to be leaving very nickable vehicle in pretty unsecured location, with lots of strange people coming and going, at strange hours, and with all facilities on campus, and no need to use the bike daily to get between bed an SU bar... very easy for it to go missing and for you to not know about it for maybe even weeks!

STRONG LOCKS. and nail the thing down to something hard and unmoving with them. Dont rely on the steering lock or a disc lock or an alarm. Chain it up.

And lastly; bikes dont like being left alone for long periods. They get lonely. You will have little reason to ride while on campus; so make some. Or when you DO want to get home... chances are you will be doing it on the back of an AA truck as the damn thing, left to its own divices has a flat battery, and clogged carburettor and wont start for you. Worse some 'mate' who tells you they know a bit about bikes will offer to 'have a look' making matters even worse.

'bout all I can think of for now! Ought to be fair bit of food for thought though! Best of luck.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Pete.]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

OP - I honestly think the best solution to your problem is to find somewhere to park the car near campus, and maybe invest in a fold away pushbike that can be stowed in the boot.

Getting into bikes solely for utilitarian shit is a vast PITA.

Okay, so the uni won't give you on campus parking. There will be streets around there where you might be able to park. Scout that crap first before selling the car and buying a bike.

Getting a bike for these reasons is a total worse case scenario speed wagon and to be avoided at all costs. Because otherwise the costs will indeed be considerable. From CBT to full license, including all the clobber, bikes, lessons, tests fees, insurance, all that SHITE, you're probably looking at nearly 3 grand. I appreciate chopping your car in could soak that up. But biking is a weird thing. I do firmly believe it has to be regarded as an end in itself these days. Not a means to an end.

OTOH, chances are that once you get into it - i.e. after doing the cbt road ride - you'll get bitten by the bug and your whole life will change. Next thing you know you'll actually give a fuck about the main differences between a bandit and a hornet, having previously been utterly unable to tell them apart unless standing 3 feet away. You will start to worry about torque settings, types and brands of 10w40, and all manner of other rubbish.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Rogerborg]

I apologise for whatever Teffers just inflicted on you.

What Pete said.

See if you can bag a free hour or so via the Get On scheme.

If you enjoy that, book a CBT (Compulsory Basic Training) course. I'd expect to pay £120 or up for it. Check that the training school provides all the gear and that the instructors aren't nobbers.

Then if you're still grinning, either buy yourself a 125 and get riding on L plates, and/or book a taught "A2" course leading to tests that will let you ride a medium sized bike (you can't get access to full power "A" bikes until you're 24).

Sadly, if you want to get a license you have to do a motorcycle theory test. It's the same as the car test with a couple of token bike questions that you don't even need to pass. C'est la vie.

By the way, if you're in it purely for utilitarianism, I wouldn't rule out scooters, they're practical and offer decent weather protection.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Doovy]

[R_Josh]

What others have said should answer your questions.

My personal opinion...

- Make sure you consider the cost of safety and security (its not as cheap as you may be thinking)
- Get your CBT done which will cost around 150.
- Buy a decent commuter bike (YBR comes to mind)
- find side roads to commute and avoid the motorway
- if you find you really enjoy motorbiking then you can do your full test when you're 24
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Current Bike: Honda CBR 125R R-C SUPER sports (SOLD)
Excuse my brevity

[Tungtvann]

Despite what Tef said, your 5 years of driving experience really should help.

I went for a CBT as a 17 year old, having never driven, I was all over the place. My road sense was shit and my handling of the bike was poor. (I didn't actually get my CBT as I wasn't good enough and never tried again)

Went for my CBT a while back as part of the direct access route to a licence, been driving years now and was all over that bike like it was second nature. That's having never been on a bike properly since I was 17. (10 years later)

So yes, learning to ride is easy.

[MC]

Car driving experience will help the original person, as you'll have more capacity to work out which limb should be doing what, rather than being scared of everything on the road.

This is one situation where a Varadero 125 would be a good recommendation, buying one, wobbling around on it for a while then doing the tests yourself might be cheaper than doing your A2 license through a training school. Then you'll be able to take it on the motorway, although you'll be lacking in power, the bike should sit at 70 ok.
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Yamaha MT-03 '08 (crashed)
Honda XR-125L '04

[ficedula]

[wr6133]

Like Roger said book a free hour with the Get on Scheme. You won't learn masses but it will give you a taste, enough to know if you want to go further. Also gives you a feeling for the school you do it at.

If you liked that in your shoes I would then book an A2 course. Depending where you live including the CBT that will set you back around 700 or more. You will need to go do the theory yourself before it. The course will take you from CBT to A2 licence in a week or less. You can't use motorways on a CBT and L plates so if motorways are your route home this is your only choice (other than CBT, L plates and the long route home)

Once that's done go buy some basic gear and grab one of the old commuters .... cb500/bandit/er5 they can be had cheap, are cheap to run and insurance shouldn't be a killer.

Costs (very roughly)

Gear (Helmet, Textile Jacket, Surplus Boots, Textile Trousers, gloves) - £150-ish

CBT + A2 + Theory - £750-ish (though can vary a lot)

Bike (well used but sound er5/bandit/cb500 type) - £1000 (though can be found cheaper depending on your mechanical knowledge)

So excluding insurance (varies to much for me to hazard a guess) you are looking at a bit under £2000 all in. For an A2 licence and bike that can use motorways.

If you wanted cheaper CBT and a 125cc bike (so no using motorways) would probably work out around 600 quid less (or more depending on the 125 you buy).

No matter which route you choose you will be ready for September. If you have the money now you could be ready in a couple of weeks!

[WD Forte]

I think its been covered but will bung in
My 2 pennorth anyway if only to repeat/reinforce

Talk to people with bikes/scoots to hear what they say about
their experiences.
They may let you sit on one and maybe have a wee go
round a car park, who knows?

Still interested?
Do the CBT
As said, you may find it terrifying, unpleasant or love it,
but even if you decide its not for you, you'll
at least have some small experience and appreciation of
what the riders you'll see on the road have to deal with when you're driving.
so it wont be wasted time.
Your car driving will have given you some road sense of course
but riding on two wheels needs extra awareness.

When my lad did his CBT I insisted he do it on a geared bike
despite the fact he'd just bought a twist and go scoot.
When he got over the extra complexity, he appreciated his options
were now open for later/bigger bikes and was soon going up
and down the box like a good un and going for a full license.
Twist an go's are fun to ride, but if thats all you are allowed to ride
its quite limiting.



BTW I've been riding for years and have not a shred of embarrasment
admitting I can't tell the difference between a Hornet and Bandit other than one's
a Honda and one's a Suzuki
I dont care either, not that interested.
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bikers smell of wee