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LBC EU referendum debate

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Kris
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 27 Mar 2014    Post subject: LBC EU referendum debate Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6hy8KyedJA

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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 27 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
At which point does it go from waffling to lols?
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 27 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
9
huh?
11
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
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whitmorereans
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 27 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
[/quote]A guy who complains about the fisheries policy, but attends the committee once out of 42 visits?[/quote]

And why would he? Ukip are a little like the Arabs who sit in the Israeli Knesset. I don't want him in the committees, I don't want Ukip MEPs doing anything that lends any form of legitimacy to the modern day Supreme Soviet that is the European Parliament, you see I don't just want the UK out of the EU, I want to see the whole stinking, corrupt rotten edifice that is the EU and all it's institutions ground into the dust and consigned to history. Every single contact I have with the euro shysters makes me hate them more and more.
*edit* I'm shit at quotes etc
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mk1GSF wrote:
Anyone who believes Farage is any different to the other crop of career politicians is a fantasist and a fool.

Clegg could have pulled him up on a number of things which he didn't.


Of course Farage isn't perfect, but he is still infinitely better than the ruling elite who all went to Oxbridge and have the same opinion.

Mk1GSF wrote:

A guy who complains about the fisheries policy, but attends the committee once out of 42 visits?

TBF, I'd vote UKIP in the local (council) elections. Because the crop in are complacent and a shower of shite.

Nige the 'man of the people'. More like 'son of a stockbroker, commodities trader, and just as silver spooned as the rest'.

UKIP are cowboys. Even cowboys fool people sometimes.
whitmorereans wrote:
of a stockbroker, he WAS a stock broker (actually he was a commodities trader). I suppose a better career path would have been to go straight to working for the LibLabCon as a "researcher" or SpAd like the rest.

whitmorereans wrote:
A guy who complains about the fisheries policy, but attends the committee once out of 42 visits?


And why would he? Ukip are a little like the Arabs who sit in the Israeli Knesset. I don't want him in the committees, I don't want Ukip MEPs doing anything that lends any form of legitimacy to the modern day Supreme Soviet that is the European Parliament, you see I don't just want the UK out of the EU, I want to see the whole stinking, corrupt rotten edifice that is the EU and all it's institutions ground into the dust and consigned to history. Every single contact I have with the euro shysters makes me hate them more and more.
*edit* I'm shit at quotes etc


There is no point in them voting anyway. Firstly because they are massively outnumbered, so the whole Parliament votes according to what the sheet they are given tells them to vote, and Farage ignores the sheet and votes no, but it still passes with a huge majority. Secondly, the Parliament can't terminate legislation anyway IIRC, they can just delay or return it to the Commission, they're like the Lords, not the Commons.

Case in point...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOV5DAFYqm8
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 02:39 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mk1GSF wrote:
They're no better than those who complain about the government, but don't vote.


I disagree, I take the position that by voting, you are playing the game. If you play the game you are giving consent to the rules of the game and therefore the outcome.

If you say "fuck these biased rules, this a load of rigged horseshit" and refuse to play you are showing you think the system is illegitimate and you reject the outcome.

I think spoiling your ballot is a good middle-ground, it shows you cared enough to actually go to the polling station, and you are clearly showing your contempt for the voting system.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Yeah, that'll learn em! Smile

There must be one party you hate slightly less than the rest, why not vote for them and at least have some influence on the outcome?

If you really get off on protesting ,why not show your anger by voting Monster Raving Looney or similar?


Well, in the long run maybe it will.

Spoiled ballot papers are counted and their number is published, along with the votes cast for each candidate.
Spoiled ballots papers are annouced as "Rejected Votes" in the results.

If the number of rejected votes outweighed the number of votes cast, at a general election, certain people would be taking notice!
The electoral commission would be interested, IMO.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suntan Sid wrote:
mpd72 wrote:
Yeah, that'll learn em! Smile

There must be one party you hate slightly less than the rest, why not vote for them and at least have some influence on the outcome?

If you really get off on protesting ,why not show your anger by voting Monster Raving Looney or similar?


Well, in the long run maybe it will.

Spoiled ballot papers are counted and their number is published, along with the votes cast for each candidate.
Spoiled ballots papers are annouced as "Rejected Votes" in the results.

If the number of rejected votes outweighed the number of votes cast, at a general election, certain people would be taking notice!
The electoral commission would be interested, IMO.


Whether it matters depends on who they were going to vote for. If they're working class types who were going to vote for those outside the Westminster bubble, I'm sure such an issue could be overlooked if it meant maintaining the status quo.

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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quite!
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flumpy7
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've never agreed with UKIP's stance on anything except giving the people a vote on Europe. Personally i'm pro Europe but think that the refusal of all sides to allow us to decide has created a paranoia that has really damaged the pro argument.

The thing about UKIP is that they have tapped into some real feelings of real people. The other parties rarely do that. What we are crying out for is a party on the left that does the same.
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sid_lee
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Joined: 28 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: out out out Reply with quote
If we have an EU referendum in 2017, it’s too late. I have temporary solution and what we can do to have an EU referendum in the UK as soon as possible?

1.5 million Immigrants from Poland came to the UK since 2004 (1) and the UK population is 63.7 5million (2). Only polish becomes 2.4% or more that means in every 40 people one polish. They are in the UK for settlement (become British), which is very easy to do as an EU citizen.
Polish immigrants take £1bn out of the UK economy (3).
In this ten year polish language become England’s second language (4). £1m of child benefit paid out a month - to mothers in Poland (5)

People come to the UK every day. Please think, it's not only polish people, many others.

We just think it’s putting pressure on schools, hospital and accommodation.

British like and welcome every new face in our country, but it's too much in too short time.

Temporary solution
Most of the people coming from the EU, to settle in the UK and for our passport. If an EU citizen come to the UK and stay here for 5 years as a student (fees paid by our tax money) or as an employee, they can have a British passport. Why can't we stop this or make it 10 years or never. All we know they will become British and send our money to their country.

1. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-suggests.html
2. https://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/i...scl=Population
3. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...K-economy.html
4. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/j...econd-language
5.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483225/1m-child-benefit-paid-month--mothers-Poland.html
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 28 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
There must be one party you hate slightly less than the rest, why not vote for them and at least have some influence on the outcome?


Would you like a carrot, parsnip or leek shoved up your arse? Or would you prefer to have your anus a vegetable free zone and not partake? Voting for this year's parsnip because it's the smallest is still giving the whole game legitimacy.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 29 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let's look at the 2010 results....

https://i.imgur.com/hKZ8z4p.png

For lib-dems, their number of votes was up 1% on last election, yet their representation was down by 5 seats. They lost politcal power, even though more people voted for them than last time.

Or look at the labour/lib difference, labour leads libs by only 6% in the number of votes, yet that 6% translates into 200 more seats than the libs.

It's a fucking joke, the power held in parliament doesn't remotely correlate with the how many people voted for them.
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 29 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
smegballs wrote:
I think spoiling your ballot is a good middle-ground, it shows you cared enough to actually go to the polling station, and you are clearly showing your contempt for the voting system.

Are there any prior examples of this kind of behaviour resulting in significant change to the system? Otherwise, while your stance might be principled, it's probably no more than a defiant expression of impotence.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 29 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
slowlydoesit wrote:

Are there any prior examples of this kind of behaviour resulting in significant change to the system? Otherwise, while your stance might be principled, it's probably no more than a defiant expression of impotence.



Not that I know of, as said before though, if it was counted that sizeable chunk (no idea what the 'critical mass' would be: 30/40% maybe?) of the electorate all spoiled their vote, the legitimacy of the election would surely be put into question.

Personally, I'm under no impression of ever living under a govt that represents my political views. Assuming I'm going to get rodgered anyway, in practice voting would be trying to get the guy with the smallest dick to be the one doing the deed (which for me is conservatives).

I'm arguing in terms of principles rather than my personal actions. It fucks up the entire idea of having your views represented in parliament when what actually happens is a race to the bottom just trying to get the least fucked.

You have three candidates:

Candidate A: 40% chance of winning, wants to fuck you with his 12" of prime man meat.

Candidate B: 40% chance of winning, wants to fuck you with his 2" micropenis.

Candidate C: 5% chance of winning, wants to be your mate and will protect you from A and B.

Ideally you want to vote for C and have a mate, however the overwhelming odds are that either A or B will win, and when the chances are that your are going to get fucked anyway, you want to do everything you can to swing it so that its the 2" pecker doing the sodomizing.
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Kickstart
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 29 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Current system is a bit of a mess. Down side of proportional representation is that minor extremist parties can land up with a couple of seats but land up holding the balance of power, giving them power far in excess of their supporr.

For a laugh, compare the results given by Smegballs above with the similar page for the previous election:-

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/constituencies/default.stm

Note that the conservatives in the 2010 election managed to get more votes than labour did in 2005 yet still needed a coalition with the lib dems to get a majority of seats (ie, 2005 conservatives managed 32.3% of the vote for 30.6% of seats, in 2011 labour managed 29% of the vote for 39.7% of seats).

All the best

Keith
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