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stranger12
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stranger12
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G
The Voice of Reason
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 Posted: 00:13 - 31 Mar 2014  Post subject: Re: streeing damper |
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For the SV or the R6?
From what I've seen they toned it down after the first models.
Even then, on stock settings you'd have to be really pushing over some bumpy roads.
Not just putting wheelies down.
I've owned two early R6s and a friend had one too. My two were track bikes, but the first was road registered and didn't have a steering damper. Even with stiffer track settings it was fine. My friend got used to riding very 'enthusiastically' over a particularly bumpy road and had a few nasty wobbles.
I'd spend your money on some advanced riding stuff if it's an issue for you - learn to avoid.
Only bike that NEEDED one was my 675 with the race suspension - to the point that a much better rider than me gave up mid race when his damper failed, despite facing losing points.
Oh and don't put your wheelies down crossed up - that's stupid, even with a steering damper. (I did on the 675 once when a rider crossed infront of me and slowed after the race, I ended up on the floor - at least I did get my finishing position and I think the marshals felt sorry enough for me not to report to race control the exact circumstances  ). |
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stranger12
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P.addy
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| stranger12 |
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stranger12
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stranger12
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P.addy
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| Posted: 00:39 - 31 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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People have had near 200 at the crank on the S1000RR.
It will be crank quotes.
You'll have around 110 at your crank also. Still fun, here is my 600RR passing a Divvy at 140mph whilst he was doing around 70mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGodewJk2DI
There was no damper on their at all and that day I hit the limiter in 6th. |
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| stranger12 |
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stranger12
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| Posted: 01:03 - 31 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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G
The Voice of Reason
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Posted: 01:12 - 31 Mar 2014  Post subject: |
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For the later bikes they also claimed it had a 17500 red line.
Later they admitted that was just on the clocks I believe and it was about 1000 below that in the engine.
Also, I got some Lynx deodorant and WASN'T mobbed by riot of randy model-level women . |
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stranger12
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Islander
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Old Git Racing
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clancy
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Kickstart
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stranger12
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| Posted: 22:35 - 31 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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cool thanks for the info , should I expect to pay around £200-300 for one ?
are they difficult to install DIY ?
one last thing which has cause some sadness  , I thought my r6 had 125 at crank and around 105-110 at wheels. why is it that you guys say it is just over 100? is it based on dyno ?
I trusted the yamaha quotes on their website.
same with my sv , if it is 72 bhp at crank then it should be around 55-60 at wheels.
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janner_10
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 06:56 - 01 Apr 2014 Post subject: |
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| stranger12 wrote: | one last thing which has cause some sadness , I thought my r6 had 125 at crank and around 105-110 at wheels. why is it that you guys say it is just over 100? is it based on dyno ?
I trusted the yamaha quotes on their website. |
Power is an imaginary commodity; it dont exist in any real tangible form. Its a rate. Specifically rate of energy transfer. You dont 'have' 100 bhp, you 'have' Newtons of force shoving you along against drag; THAT is what you get. Same way credit cards work. Interest is a 'rate' you don't 'have' 3% or 39%, you have hard cash quids.
Meanwhile, power ratings? that's max power. One specific number, under one set of specific conditions. Throttle wide open, at peak power revs, under load absorbing the energy being delivered.
At part throttle, you wont get that number; at any other revs you wont get that number. it means bugger all in the real world, where those exact conditions don't apply.
So dont get hung up on it. Go out and USE it, cos that is only time power has any real meaning, when put to work, and 'useable' power is a very different thing to what you get off dyno-traces and off marketing mens spec sheets, and one man can make more use of an accademic potential of 30bhp than others can from an equally accademic potential of 130bhp, when put to the acid test, which is getting from point A to Point B in the shortest time.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 12:26 - 01 Apr 2014 Post subject: |
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote: | Every engine makes slightly different power anyway depending on its build characteristics. |
Engines dont 'make' power. Power is Rate of Energy Transfer, and energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, merely converted in form, remember. Power is a rate, a measure of how quickly energy is being moved from one place or form to another.
While more than the amount of power an engine may deliver being variable between different engines; can and will vary from moment to moment on any one engine. Few engines run at fixed load and speed continually, and even those that might run at fixed speed and load for significant time, wont be doing so at peak-power conditions. Power varies on the throttle, and on the revs on any engine, to start with; but keep them constant, will still vary on environmental circumstances.
B in BHP stands for Brake as in horse-power calculated from measurement made on a Brake-Force Dynometer.
Brake-Force Dynometer, is essentially a big disc brake, but the torque-arm that would stop it being dragged round if it were on a wheel, rather than being bolted to the swing arm or being the fork slider, is a bludy big lever, and by hanging weights off it, you can measure the torque being delivered to the brake. Measure the speed the brakes being turned, and you may calculate the power being transmitted, from Power = Force x Lever Length x Revs.
More useful formula for power is Power = Cylinder Displacement x Cylinder Pressure x Crank Revs. Back to force again, that is what is being physically handled here, 'power' is purely conceptual.
Cylinder pressure comes from burning your charge in the cylinder; Charge is petrol and air, but only the oxygen in air is doing anything useful, and that is only around 1/5th the volume of the air sucked into the engine, being a mixture of gasses; mostly nitrogen, but also carbon di-oxide, water vapour and gawd knows what else.
Put a real engine in to the real world, and how much fuel it can burn depends on how much oxygen you have to burn it. Why Super-Chargers and Turbos are so good at helping get more power; they cram more air into an engine than if you let it get there under atmospheric pressure. But, by same principle, take an engine to the top of a hill, where air pressure will be less than at the bottom... its going to suck less air, and so deliver less force/power.
We live in Britain. Cold wet grey island that it is; rather prone to rain. Air contains water-vapour, which will reduce the % of oxygen in a fixed volume of charge; again effecting the cylinder pressure that you will get, brake-force and power. Water is strange stuff though, and while presence of extra atoms can be a bit of a neusance to the chemical reaction of combustion, the thermo-dynamics of the steam engine, and waters phenomenal expansion ratio from liquid to gas, mean a little water can actually help increase cylinder pressure, hence delivered power.
Carbon-Dioxide in air, however wont help at all. That will tend to damp combustion, which is why they use it to put out fires. And again, engine in the real world, is as likely to be sucking a pretty good percentage of CO2 left behind by other vehicles traveling the same road.
To wit, any BHP measurement is only telling you how much power that engine may deliver, under the enviromental circumstances of THAT dyno-run.
What it might be able to deliver ten minutes later, outside the dyno-house, sucking air with more or less CO2 in it, at a different temperature, different humidity, different atmospheric pressure, and any other number of variables might be something quite different.
Power is a 'Rating' an index of how much motive force an engine MIGHT deliver; its not an absolute commodity, and its environmentally dependent.
Though there's probably a far greater degree of variation in measurement accuracy of base metrics, like lever lengths, drum speeds, weights, air temperature, air humidity etc etc etc, all going into the maths to calculate the power numbers, and subject to calculation error in roundings and the like, and THEN even more variation possible in the calculation 'correction factors' applied to calculated power out-put to test standards; where they add a bit or take a bit or scale a bit to account, maybe, for some of the variables, to make a reading from one engine on one Dyno more 'comprable' to a reading from another engine, on another Dyno.
Which... can be used to grossely exagerate or deflate what numbers get put on the chart, if you stack up all the best or worse fudge factors on top of what was actually measured.
Power Numbers REALLY don't mean very much at all, unless you know how they are derived, and knowing how they are derived, have a use for them, like developing a new engine, or re-engineering one for a new use, like a racing motor or something, in which case the numbers are still pretty irrelevant, what's more important is changes in them.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| bladerunner |
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bladerunner
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| Posted: 13:35 - 01 Apr 2014 Post subject: |
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Never ridden a road bike that's needed an after market damper....Slabby GSXR and early blades that both had a reputation for tank slappers.....had plenty of lively moments on both but nothing that happens unexpectedly .....usually bumps in the road with a heavy throttle hand  only bike I have ridden where I preferred a steering damper was on a race use only RGV.....it wasn't so much to stop tank slappers but to stop the damn thing dropping into corners so fast I spent the first day of each season trying to avoid the kerb on the apex........got one on my 929 fitted by a previous owner for some reason.....it's wound off to the max as most road bikes are toned down with conservative geometry anyhow
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P.addy
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 165 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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