Whats the next step when 21 and got a Cbt? What tests etc.

[Jonescasual92]

Hi all, I'm a bit confused from things I've been reading all over the internet and from what people are telling me about the rules and regulations about what cc you can have at certain ages with certain tests/modules .etc but I can't find an answer to what order I take them in. I know you start with a Cbt which is valid for 2 years but what happens when that expires? Does that mean you can then have any cc without taking any further tests or do you have to renew it? And what's the differences to if you are 21 and over to 21 and under and you want a bike.

I Would appreciate if somebody could give me a step by step guide to what I would need to do exactly to get a full uk bike licence. Thanks!
____________________
Dan Jones

[pinkyfloyd]

Your CBT is only a certificate to say you have reached a basic level of training and allowed to ride on the road on L plates. After 2 years that certificate expires and you have to do another CBT. You are not allowed to ride anything more than a 125cc motorcycle and must display L plates.

At 21 years old you can take either the A1 motorcycle test or through a bike school do an A2 licence.

Details are as follows:

[Jonescasual92]

So Can I take an a1 or a2 while I have my Cbt in that 2 years or do I have to wait for the 2 years to be up til I take either of them? Also am I right saying I'd need to pass my a2 in order to upgrade to a 450, 600, 1000 etc. in the future? Sorry for thousands of questions I'm just trying to grasp it haha!
____________________
Dan Jones

[NooBish-AbbZ]

[Teflon-Mike]

You start with applying for UK Driving Licence. You dont need to take any tests to get one; but your first licence will be a 'Provisional' and all that lets you do is lessons. You can drive or ride any vehicle you meet age eligibility for; BUT only under supervision of an Instructor.

When you have passed a Driving Test, for any vehicle category; you get a Full UK Driving Licence. Entitlement lets you drive or ride the category of vehicle you have passed tests for, unsupervised. Entitlement on all other categories remains 'provisional' and only lets you take lessons.

That's the basic precept. Car, Motorbike, Lorry, Bus, whatever. Until you pass tests for vehicle you want to use; provisional JUST lets you take lessons.

For cars, the qualifying criteria for an 'instructor' I think is merely having held car entitlement on your own licence more than two years, and being over the age of 21; so most car licence holders can be an 'instructor', as far as giving lessons to provisional licence holders.

For just about any other category of licence though, certainly for motorcycles, supervision may only be offered by Driving Standards Agency (DSA) approved Instructors.

NOW; there are a bunch of 'Restrictions' for 'Learners' on a provisional licence; like none are allowed on a motorway. But one specific to motorcyclists is they cant carry a passenger.

In a car, or lorry, if you were having a lesson, you would get into the drivers seat, and your qualified instructor/supervisor would clamber into the passenger seat next to you, and tell you what to do, possibly hover their hand over the hand brake between you, or their feet over 'duel controls' in case you did something daft.

So; supervising instructor cant get onto the motorbike you are riding; this makes them supervising you a bit difficult; they have to do it from another motorbike following you; and put a radio in your helmet so they can tell you if you do something daft.

Worth noting that's all they can do... if you don't listen, all they can do after, is watch you crash; they have no way, like a car instructor to take over the controls!

OK Then; so you do lessons. Under supervision; take tests, get full licence, then can ride/drive whatever you have qualified for.

Motorbikes: Three sub catagories.

A1 - a motorcycle under 125cc and less than 11Kw with power to weight ratio no greater than 0.1Kw per Kg. Minimum age Eligibility (to take tests) 17 years old.

A2 - a motorcycle of any capacity, but less than 35Kw, with power to weight ratio no greater than 0.2Kw per Kg. Minumum age eligibility (to take tests)19 years old.

A3 - Any Motorcycle, of any capacity, any weight. 'Unrestricted' Ride what you like entitlement. Minimum age Eligibility (to take tests) 24 years old, OR if holder of A2 entitlement, age upon having held A2 for two years.

Ie; if you gain A2 entitlement, and hold it two years, you get early eligibility to do the A3 tests. JUST eligibility to TAKE A3 tests early. You want that entitlement, you still have to take the tests, even if you have taken test before to get A2.

They are now, essentially three almost independent catagories; like a car licence, bus licence and lorry licence. Car licence never 'matures' to become a lorry licence; so neither does an A1 bike licence ever become anything but an A1. You want that entitlement group; only way to get it is take the tests for it. end of story.

Until beginning of last year; the system was different. We Still had the A1 licence; but we didn't have A2 or A3. Instead we just had 'A',. the unrestricted ride what you like entitlement, and the restricted 'A>25Kw until dd/mm/20yy'.

The Age eligibility for the ride what you like A catagory was 21 years old; but has gone up, now you have to be 24.

The A>25Kw, you could do at 17, and was a the Full A entitlement, but with a 25Kw power restriction, that lasted till date they printed on the licence; two years from date of passing tests. At which point that restriction 'expired'.

But, old news, and irrelevent to you, as that system is history. And I mention it only as it probably explains some of the conflicting stories you have been getting.

Ie once opon a time, you could take the motorbike tests at 17 (or any other age above that, for that matter), and get a 'restricted' licence, and magically, two years later, that became the ride what you like licence, without having to do anything else.

Now; 17 years old you can do A1, and little else. 19, you can go for A2; 24 you can go for A3, essentially different classes of licence, like car, bus and lorry.

Oh Kay. Tests.

CBT? Compulsary Basic Training. T- Training, NOT test. Compulsary, you have to do it. Basic? It is. Essentially its your first 'Lesson' on a motorbike; and you get a certificate for completing it 'satisfactorily'. Thats the DL196, or CBT Cert. And its NOT a 'Licence'. But you have to have one, to 'validate' the provisional entitlement of your licence. DL196 has a validity period of two years; if you dont pasa a motorcycle test in that time... well, what you playing at REALLY, ought to be ample time to Learn... but, if you dont, and you want to carry on having lessons... you have to re-do the CBT to keep your provisional entitlement valid.

NOW... you are screaming "Yeah But" and trying to tell me that some-one, every-one even has told you that CBT is a 125 licence?

No, it ISN'T. Its a not even particularly pretty little piece of paper, with orange DSA logo in the corner, that says you done your first lesson. Your licence is your licence; thing with your mug shot on it, and the bit of paper that DVLA send you with that that has lots of boxes and codes no one can understand on it.

THAT is what lets you ride or drive ANYTHING... and the code on ther that lets you ride a 125 is the afore mentioned A1 entitlement, gained form passing the tests to get that catagory.

Provisional entitlement, gained by filling out form on line or in the post office and sending cheque to DVLA, validated by CBT cert MERELY lets you 'LEARN' take lessons.

But we have a loop-hole... rather daft one if you think about it, but still there.

Because you cant carry a passenger on provisional entitlement on a motorbike, and because you can only be supervised by DSA approved instructor on another bike; and because it can be quite traumatic for instructors watching newbies who dont do as they are told, crash infront of thier eyes; (means a high rate of instructor resignations; costs on the NHS for trauma councelling; difficulty in finding more riders to train as instructors; it's not good, really!)...

They Let Learner Motorcyclists.... out on thier own.... Before Tests!

Scary. VERY scary. Most dangerouse form of motorised transport; AND only one they let completely unqualified numpties take to the roads on.

Idea, is basically so you can 'Practice' for tests. With small benefit when you crash... instructors don't get splattered with your blood, or even have to witness the carnage, and dont end up in casualty shaking, waiting for a diazipan fix.

(Actually, its a 'legacy'; up until about twenty years ago, it wasn't deemed 'practical' to supervise a Learner-Motorcyclist via radio. Sets were too big and too expensive and too unreliable; so they just let em out on thier own to learn by trial and a lot of error, usually! So we still have that facility. Bit daft, but can, IF you use it prudently and recognise that L-Plating is just that, so you can learn, and practice for tests, and NOT a licence, be quite useful.)

To limit the amount of carnage some-what, they DO put some restrictions on what you might ride unsupervised, on provisional entitlement, and that's basically same machine restrictions as for the A1 licence; 125cc, 11Kw, 0.1Kw/Kg, plus no passengers, plus usual learner restrictions, like no motorways.

Rather makes a mockery of having an A1 licence catagory, if they will let you ride same damn thing without taking tests on L's, and most people will say they don't see the point in it, BUT... it can be useful, and main use is that the tests to get it are cheaper than re-doing a CBT, to carry on riding around an unqualified numpty on L's, and you can do the practical tests on the 125cc bike you have been riding around to practice on; so you dont HAVE to take formal lessons, or very many of them.

A2, and A3... same tests, but you have to take them on a bike meeting test requrements; deemed 'representative' of the entitlement by the DSA. Which I am not going to try and quote from memory as I have a feeling that they slipped in some deferred changes' to them this January... but BASICALLY you have to take the tests for the A2 or A3 on a 'big-bike', which you CANNOT ride before passing tests, unless under supervision of a DSA instructor; which pretty much means you have to do a 'course' to get the licence.

Route to a licence.

1/ CBT - First lesson then whatever practice/training you want after
2/ Theory/Hazard test for MOTORCYCLE - its different test for different groups. Car thoery dont count for anythig but car licence, motorcycle theory anything but motorcycle licence. Only one test for all Motorcycle groups, use it towards A1, A2 or A3. costs £32 from memory, pass cert valid for two years.
3/ Module 1 - 'Off-Road' practical. Off-Road doesn't mean going Moto-Crossing or dirt riding with the examiner... dont laugh we HAVE had newbs that thought that! Its a tennis court for want of a better description; and you have to show the examiner you can wheel the bike around, between white lines, pretending to be a garage, and not forget to put the stand down and stuff; then go weave through some cones, show you can do a 30mph 'swerve' and an e-stop, and thats pretty much it. costs £15. YOU provide the bike, meeting test requirements for licence you want. So your own L-Plate 125 for an A1, school bike, if you are doing an A2 or A3.
4/ Mod 2 - 'On-Road' practical. Round the houses, followed by examiner, just like a car test. turn left, turn right, take the third exit, kind of thing, in real traffic, for about half an hour; try not to break any road laws, knock anyone over or fall off, remember to turn your head so examiner sees you make proper 'observations'... job done. Again, on bike meeting test requirements for licence you want, you provide, your own or a schools. Test costs £75, I think.

Mod 1 & Mod 2 HAVE to be taken under the same test scheme; so if youwant an A2 licence, you have to take A2 Mod 1 and Mod 2. You cant do Mod 1 on a 125 under A1 rules, then turn up and try doing Mod 2 on an A3 bike for an A3 licence.

A LOT to take in, but its not that complex. and here and now is, you are 21.

If you start with CBT, you may ride a 125 unsupervised on L's, for as long as CBT cert is valid, but its not a licence, and its supposed to only be so you can practice for tests. and they aren't particularly demanding tests at that. I mean car drivers can pass the damn things, so any-one ought to be able to really!

You are eligible to test for either an A1 or A2 licence. But not an A3.

If you want to get a 125, and they ARE useful little machines and propper motorbikes, often as fast as anything else is legally allowed to go in this country; well, you could ride it about pretty much indefinitely, never taking tests, just repeating CBT every two years, and many do do just that.

Daft; most dangerouse form of motorised transport, and no qualification; but that aside; if you buy a 125 you can take A1 tests on it, and they total, I think £121.50, pretty much price of one repeat CBT course. If you planned to ride on L's until you could get the A3 licence straight off, at 24, you would have to repeat CBT, as its more than two years away; so doing A1, may be worth the doing of. And what the heck, if you cant pass the damn tests on your own 125, for cost of DSA test fees only, then take the hint, you need to improve your riding! And, while dissapointing to fail, Hey! loosing £15 of test fee on a 125 test, is damn site less gauling than loosing £15 worth of test fee, plus £150 worth of bike hire and instructor to get to test center on A2 or A3 eligible bike!

A2. If you dived in the deep end and went for A2 licence straight off; Schools prices vary, and quite widely; but ball-park, reckon on about £200 a day, for training and bike hire. Courses are ball-park about £1000, but depends how many days training you may need and how much they include in the fees. Some copurses will be inclusive, and include price of CBT and all test fees and bike hire in them, others may only be for so many days training and bike hire; so make sure when you compare prices, you compare like with like.

Starting from cold; chances are you are going to need more training than some-one who's got a bit of experience; so probably one of the more expensive courses, that would probably include CBT in the package.

£1000 or so then, might get a you an A2 licence. That licence would let you then go ride a 45bhp bike. Almost no 600 or bigger sports bikes are or may be made A2 eligible; you would be looking more at middleweight, 500/600cc tourers or commuters. And THAT is all that licence would ever let you ride.

Early eligibility for A3? Well, at 21, you'd be 23 and however many months past 21 you are now, plus however many months took you to get A2 in the bag... probably NOT going to let you get an A3 licence entitlement many days before you could simply waiting for your 24th birthday.

AND, would mean another course to take A3 tests. If you had got your A2, probably a cheaper course; and if you have already gained a full motorcycle licence, either A1 or A2, having passed CBT and Theory, you wouldn't have to re-do them; so it would just be the two Mod tests over on more powerful bike. Maybe, two days of training, and tests? £400-£500 or so 'extra' over first course.

So choices.

1/ Do CBT prtetend to be a learner for ever, or at least until old enough to do A3 licence straight off, repeating CBT every two years, until you pass a test.

2/ Get a bit smart; Do CBT, get 125, take tests to get A1 licence. Ditch the L's and not have to re-do CBT ever, or waste the money paying for them, and be able to do courses for higher licences without having to worry about getting Theory in first, and with confidence you have passed tests once, you are a qualified rider, just got to re-do on larger bike.

3/ Find big money; do A2 course here and now. Get middleweight commuter/tourer. Could be as much as you ever really need from a bike; no need to do another tests if you dont want. But is expensive. And only half way to ride what you like licence.

A3, here and now is not on the menu; but of a goal; well, you will have to do a course to get it, when you are older. CBT & L's but no more, wont help you much towards it. Doing A1 or A2 might give you a bit ore of a boost. But A2, wont give you much more of a leg up than doing A1, just let you have slightly more inspiring machinary to ride in the mean time.

Advice? Well, If you have the idea of getting a bike, plan on getting a licence.

If you have the idea of 'just' doing the 125 thing on L-Plates until old enough to get the full fat unrestricted licence... dont. Get a licence.

Choice then between getting a 125 and going for an A1 licence; which has merit of being reasonably cheap, and getting you on the road, soonest. Or going for an A2 course; that will take a chunk of money to put licence in your pocket before you can buy a bike; so wont get you on the road as soon, or as cheaply. But you get a bit more inspiring bit of tackle to tuck between your legs.

What's more important? Time? Money? Performance?
And can you afford ANY of it? that's probably the bottom line! Whatever you may want, end of the day you have to pay for it.
My wallet makes a lot of decisions like this for me, very easy!

Remember; bike prices are only very small part of what it will cost you. You'll need a helmet, some riding gear, and if you want to hang on to your bike, locks and security to chain it down; as well as tax, insurance, MOT, and often the biggest cost on most vehicles, fuel.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Rogue_Shadow]

https://i.imgur.com/lA8iUzH.gif

You've done it again Tef

[expat200]

Wow, didn't realise it was so complicated these days, my kid back in the UK was trying to tell me about it but didn't seem to have a full grasp of all the details.

Much simpler in my day:
1) Get provisional license in post
2) Buy bike (up to 125cc, 12hp)
3) L-plates on
4) Ride bike (no lessons, no training, no bugger all)
5) Try not to die!
6) Within 2 years: part 1 test (wobble rounds the cones) then part 2 test (road test , examiner standing on pavement??)
7) Out next day and buy a GPZ900/GSX-R1100/RD500LC/Ducati851 (I wish)
8) Try not to die!

On reflection it isn't surprising it was dangerous. If you had your car test then the two year limit didn't apply so you could ride indefinitely on L-plates with no training/test at all.

I am sure there are some 'more mature' riders who remember the 250cc limit (100mph on L-plates!), no time limit on l-plates and no part 1 test at all.

[sabian92]

It fucking staggers me than the government are all "BIKES ARE DANGEROUS HURR DURR" then immediately forget you're legally allowed to ride one at 70mph with precisely fuck all training apart from "here's the brake, here's the twisty thing that makes you go, now sign here". Not even a theory test!



To OP:

Yes, you NEED a CBT or you can't ride anything legally, even under instruction (unless you're sitting a CBT, anyway). You get caught with no CBT, you gon get raped by the police. Not only that your insurance won't be valid (as a term is you need a CBT) so you'll get fucked on that as well.

At 16, you can ride a 50cc hairdryer on wheels on a CBT. No motorways, no passengers and you must have L(oser) plates. You can also sit an AM licence, which from what I gather lets you lose the L plates and that's it. Not sure, so few bother anyway.

At 17 your CBT automatically upgrades so you can ride a 125. Again, no motorways (even on a full car licence as you have a provisional bike licence - I'm 21, full car licence since I was 17, can drive on motorways but the Government deem it too dangerous to ride a motorcycle on them instead ), no passengers and you must have L plates. You can sit your A1 motorcycle entitlement at 17 which allows you to ride a 125 (no more) but on motorways, with a pillion and you lose the L plates. I recommend doing exactly none of those as they couldn't pull the skin off a rotted corpse even with 1 person on them. 2-up on a motorway? Fuck that.

At 19 you can do your A2 entitlement. 46.6hp maximum for 2 years. No bigger than that or again, the po-po will rape you and you'll lose your licence (potentially, depends how naughty you were and how many kittens you killed while doing so).

At 24 (or 2 years on an A2 licence, which ever comes first) you can do your unrestricted A entitlement. Do your mod 1/2, you can ride whatever you can afford to insure.

There. A short and easy guide. At the moment, being you're 21 you can go straight for your A2 as you don't need any previous experience (barring a CBT, you don't need to sit your A1 if you don't want to, and I recommend not bothering as you can't do anything extra useful with it over just a CBT). I reckon if you've got a CBT and been riding regularly for 3 months +, a week of intensive lessons to prepare you for Mod 1/2 and you'll probably pass. Depends how quickly you learn.

[TheSmiler]

[pinkyfloyd]

[sabian92]

[Tamsin]

[sidewinder]

I think the reason your can ride a bike will l's and be unsupervised is a size thing.a car hitting say another car at speed will cause a lot more damage than a bike. Maybe

[Teflon-Mike]

First; ANY bike even a bludy push-bike is 'fast enough to kill you', if you are daft or unlucky enough. Shit, you can get killed tripping over a loose paving slab and falling against a kerb-stone!

Speed dont kill... stupidity kills... clumsiness kills... bad damn luck kills.

An engine may just help the stupid, clumsy or damn unlucky kill themselves more easily!

[Tamsin]

I absolutely agree with that wall of text