Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Kill a biker? Redeem yourself with litter picking.

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Mondeo Man
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 21 May 2011
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:16 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Kill a biker? Redeem yourself with litter picking. Reply with quote
https://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/april/mansentencedfollowingfatal.aspx

Yet more proof that a bikers life is worthless. Meanwhile, if you get caught speeding on an open motorway (which I by no means condone) the whole might of the state will break you.

A £60 "victim surcharge"? Gota be a piss take, right?

Last edited by Mondeo Man on 10:26 - 06 Apr 2014; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

bugeye_bob
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Sep 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:23 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Re: Kill a biker? Redeem yourself with litter picking. Reply with quote
Mondeo Man wrote:
https://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/april/mansentencedfollowingfatal.aspx

Yet more proof that a bikers life is worthless. Meanwhile, if you get caught speeding on an open motorway (which I by no means condone) the whole might of the state will break you.


How can that punishment be right, you cant take a life and admit your a twat and not see the inside of a prison cell.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Dave70
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:46 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd say that's unbelievable but, sadly it really isn't.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

sabian92
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:14 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same happens for cycling deaths as well. It seems that if you're on 2 wheels you aren't a human.

Equally, if you want to murder somebody, run them down. You'll get a far lesser sentence than stabbing them.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Seigi
Nova Slayer



Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:15 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's horrible to read but we don't know the story truly. If the man driving the car was truly remorseful, destroyed by what had happened then sending him to prison is going to achieve literally nothing. Prison is to keep people who are a danger to society separate, and his only danger is driving a car like a fucking tit. I think his ban from driving should've been much longer than 18 months though, perhaps 48 - 60 months, 18 month will pass in no time. And certainly a much higher fine.
____________________
2008 Honda CBR125 (sold) / Suzuki DL 650 V Strom (Current bike)
Mod 2 Passed: 03/09/2013
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

wr6133
World Chat Champion



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:28 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seigi wrote:
It's horrible to read but we don't know the story truly. If the man driving the car was truly remorseful, destroyed by what had happened then sending him to prison is going to achieve literally nothing. Prison is to keep people who are a danger to society separate, and his only danger is driving a car like a fucking tit. I think his ban from driving should've been much longer than 18 months though, perhaps 48 - 60 months, 18 month will pass in no time. And certainly a much higher fine.


Your statement is fucking shit.

That biker had a family I'm pretty bloody sure they want the wankstain that killed him PUNISHED by being locked up.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:31 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Usual anti-two wheeler justice, nothing surprising there!

(Out of curiosity, does anyone know if it was just the bike that took out the front of the Clio or did the car behind go through it as well? That's quite a mess if it were just the bike!!!)
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
covent.gardens This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Flame). Unhide this post / all posts.

Seigi
Nova Slayer



Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:35 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
Seigi wrote:
It's horrible to read but we don't know the story truly. If the man driving the car was truly remorseful, destroyed by what had happened then sending him to prison is going to achieve literally nothing. Prison is to keep people who are a danger to society separate, and his only danger is driving a car like a fucking tit. I think his ban from driving should've been much longer than 18 months though, perhaps 48 - 60 months, 18 month will pass in no time. And certainly a much higher fine.


Your statement is fucking shit.

That biker had a family I'm pretty bloody sure they want the wankstain that killed him PUNISHED by being locked up.


Some people just want to see the world burn.... Folded arms

Prison isn't supposed to be punishment, the 29 year old isn't a toddler who has to go sit on the naughty step. Prison is intended as rehabilitation.
____________________
2008 Honda CBR125 (sold) / Suzuki DL 650 V Strom (Current bike)
Mod 2 Passed: 03/09/2013
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:38 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seigi wrote:
Prison is to keep people who are a danger to society separate, and his only danger is driving a car like a fucking tit


If they tried locking up every fuck-wit driver on the roads, we'd need Australia back as Prison Colony.

Seigi wrote:
I think his ban from driving should've been much longer than 18 months though, perhaps 48 - 60 months, 18 month will pass in no time. And certainly a much higher fine.


That's the duration of licence suspension, minimum duration, before he can apply to do the extended re-test for disqualified driver.

So after 18 months he has to do another, tougher, driving test...

And before he gets back on the road, will need insurance.... declaring a conviction for causing death by, will probably mean he, and any-one who tries to add him to a policy will be rewarded by 'effoff' premium quotes.

So the effective 'ban' is far longer than the imposed licence suspension.

And in the meantime, what's the effect on his real world life?

Hows he going to get to work? Without a licence, will he still be able to do the job he did? Certainly hamper a lot of job prospects. And curtail his social life; not just stopping him getting out as much, but pissing off all his mates, having to detour and give him lifts.

Quite possibly, living in the real world, motorised liberty chopped off at the knees, seeing every day what you have lost, more cruel punishment than being sent down to live in a box in an alternate reality where it doesn't matter, and however many hundred other miscreants, all share the same lifestyle, relieved of responsibilities, and all thier basic needs catered for by the institution.

I nearly got backed into by a woman yesterday, who swing round a corner on a road with parked cars either side, saw a car coming the other way and no-where to pass, so slammed into rev, and started moving before checking behind properly... It was half past three, right outside a school... lucky it was Saturday, really!

Oh But for the Grace of.... go so many of us.

However... while such incidents are always tragic... was a thunk I had on that same journey yesterday.... Accidents happen where hazards, and most traffic is concentrated. Britain, THE most densely populated bit of real-estate in Europe, and with one of the highest rates of car ownership in the world... YET, we have one of the BEST road safety records.

Something must be working.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:42 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
Seigi wrote:
It's horrible to read but we don't know the story truly. If the man driving the car was truly remorseful, destroyed by what had happened then sending him to prison is going to achieve literally nothing. Prison is to keep people who are a danger to society separate, and his only danger is driving a car like a fucking tit. I think his ban from driving should've been much longer than 18 months though, perhaps 48 - 60 months, 18 month will pass in no time. And certainly a much higher fine.


Your statement is fucking shit.

That biker had a family I'm pretty bloody sure they want the wankstain that killed him PUNISHED by being locked up.


Are you saying that you have never ever made a motoring mistake in your life???
Everybody has moments, fortunately for most of us we don't end up killing people. It's one thing to consider all other road users as idiots when you're in the thick of them and self preservation is utmost but are you saying that you knew the killer and he is a 'wankstain'???
The lack of jail term is most unfortunate but Seigi is right when he says that both ban and fine should have been tougher.
I'd get more for dropping litter in the City centre.
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Ed Case
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:53 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I expect the police were just as much pissed-off with that result. Once again never confuse 'The Law' with 'Justice', there's plenty of the first and fuck-all of the second.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

covent.gardens
World Clap Champion



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:07 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, how strange to have two parallel threads going on. One (this) where some are disgusted by a lenient sentence given to a biker killer. The other, where Hetzer's brother got sentenced to 8 years, people are asking for the details of how to send care packages to the prison! Thinking
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
wr6133 This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Confusing). Unhide this post / all posts.

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:12 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
covent.gardens wrote:
Well, how strange to have two parallel threads going on. One (this) where some are disgusted by a lenient sentence given to a biker killer. The other, where Hetzer's brother got sentenced to 8 years, people are asking for the details of how to send care packages to the prison! Thinking


Love the person, not the crime Wink
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Al
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:28 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seigi wrote:

Prison isn't supposed to be punishment, the 29 year old isn't a toddler who has to go sit on the naughty step. Prison is intended as rehabilitation.


It is supposed to be a deterrent though and that just sends out the message that apart from maybe feeling a little sad nothing will actually happen to you if you make a mistake and end up killing somebody.

Personally if I killed somebody through bad driving I doubt I'd want to drive again anyway so a ban would make little difference and I'd rather serve some time to feel that I'd paid for my mistake.
____________________
Yamaha FZR400RR 3tj
My Instagram Thingy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

-Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:24 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seigi wrote:
I think his ban from driving should've been much longer than 18 months though, perhaps 48 - 60 months, 18 month will pass in no time. And certainly a much higher fine.
Or a lifetime ban.

Prison-sentance value discussion aside, after killing someone through failure to drive properly; ending that persons life and ruining the lives of many others, if the greatest inconvenience to the driver is a lifetime getting the bus its the least they could think about.

Why should they be allowed back out on the road after such a catastrophic error.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:44 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
-Matt- wrote:
Why should they be allowed back out on the road after such a (catastrophic) error.

Do you base the punishment on the crime, or the consequences?

The woman who 'almost' backed into me yesterday, made no more or less and error than the lad that killed the (speeding) biker.

She did no harm; I had stopped early enough that she didn't run into me. If she had? Bit of mangled metal, perhaps.

Same 'crime' not looking where you are going, not paying attention, 'rushing'...

BUT, she didn't kill any-one.... Could have... had it been Friday, not Saturday, and little kiddie ran out of school gates to mummy..... would you have her licence revoked for ever, or locked up for a long time?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Hugh Farking Cant
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:01 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Re: Kill a biker? Redeem yourself with litter picking. Reply with quote
Mondeo Man wrote:
https://www.norfolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/april/mansentencedfollowingfatal.aspx

Yet more proof that a bikers life is worthless. Meanwhile, if you get caught speeding on an open motorway (which I by no means condone) the whole might of the state will break you.

A £60 "victim surcharge"? Gota be a piss take, right?


The "victim surcharge" bears no relation to the offence;
it is what used to be defined as "court costs" and is applied for instance in speeding cases.
Who is the victim in that case then ?
Purely another scam.
As you state; calling it a victim surcharge in this case is offensive and puts forward a very misleading perspective.
____________________
Remember; Someone on here always has a blacker cat.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

-Matt-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:03 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:
Do you base the punishment on the crime, or the consequences?

The woman who 'almost' backed into me yesterday, made no more or less and error than the lad that killed the (speeding) biker.

She did no harm; I had stopped early enough that she didn't run into me. If she had? Bit of mangled metal, perhaps.

Same 'crime' not looking where you are going, not paying attention, 'rushing'...

BUT, she didn't kill any-one.... Could have... had it been Friday, not Saturday, and little kiddie ran out of school gates to mummy..... would you have her licence revoked for ever, or locked up for a long time?
I'm inclined to agree somewhat with what Seigi said about sentancing serving no purpose - as you said its was an accident, perhaps a careless one admittedly - so unless you're talking about the wider picture of potential prison sentances acting as a deterant for others to let their attention lapse, its just about 'justice' for the family and all that jazz. Thats another debate though which I won't go into as it'll take the topic way off track Laughing

Regarding what you said though - I don't think its a 'punishment' to be banned from driving, its just the result of poor driving to a certain extent, in order to hopefully protect other road users after causing such a severe accident. As with all other driving-enforcement - if someone makes mistakes driving, the amount of fine/points/duration of the ban is relative to the potential/actual severity; 'consequences' of what they did, so should it not be the same for the duration of bans in a case like this.

If someones caught drink driving they may get a 1 year ban, if someones drink driving and crashes into an empty shop I suspect it would be a bit more, if someones drinking driving and hits and injures someone more severe again and so forth. Killing someone would generally be considered to be the worst error/result of careless driving therefore going by that system should carry the most severe 'punishment' in terms of ban duration [and probably a lot more effective at limiting the chance of future damage than a prison sentance, in the individuals case at least]. The biggest problem is lack of consistency in sentancing IMO.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hugh Farking Cant
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:15 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:

That's the duration of licence suspension, minimum duration, before he can apply to do the extended re-test for disqualified driver.

So after 18 months he has to do another, tougher, driving test...


Will he have to retake a test, Mike ?; nothing indicates he is a newly licensed driver, subject to that legislation, or has been convicted of
a drink/drugs offence ;where I believe it is at the magistrates discretion.
Perhaps I missed something ?


Perhaps ALL incidents where a fatality has occurred should be referred to a Crown court where a jury of ones peers is possibly able to influence the penalty rather than the current system ?

Any thoughts all ?
____________________
Remember; Someone on here always has a blacker cat.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:02 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hugh Farking Cant wrote:
Will he have to retake a test, Mike ?; nothing indicates he is a newly licensed driver, subject to that legislation, or has been convicted of a drink/drugs offence ;where I believe it is at the magistrates discretion.

As far as I'm aware, under NDA your licence revoked. You have no licence, start from scratch.
Disqualification = You have licence, but no 'entitlement' for duration of disqual.
Then Automatic Extended retest for disqual driver, to regain entitlement.
I didn't think it was at any ones discretion. Disqual was disqual. , and needed extended test; whether disqualified for one day, from a single offence, or for accumulation of points over many offences, and ban of years.
But stand to be corrected, if that's not so.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Dave500
Traffic Copper



Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:02 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
So The bike was traveling at the speed limit, other cars saw him and there was a car behind the biker?
I think this guy needs to retake his test(If he drives again) if he couldn't see a bike and a car in daylight perhaps a sight test is in order.
Its just a huge shame a family has had to go through losing a family member and seeing the killer walk free.
____________________
Bye bye Z hello Versys Smile
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Al
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:24 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Teflon-Mike wrote:

Do you base the punishment on the crime, or the consequences?


A bit of both, the crime on its own is fairly minor but it sets you up for a fall if the consequences are severe.

It does make you think, most of us probably commit fairly minor calculated speeding offences on a regular basis. Although that might not be the cause of the accident it does leave us open to blame if something out of our control was to go wrong. A child running out for instance, it would be hero to zero in a matter of seconds.
____________________
Yamaha FZR400RR 3tj
My Instagram Thingy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:31 - 06 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dave500 wrote:
So The bike was traveling at the speed limit

norfolk.police wrote:
Whilst Mr Holmes (the Biker) had been travelling above the speed limit, a number of other drivers had seen both the motorbike and the other car.

They don't say how much over the limit he was going, merely that they calculated he could have been seen for 7 seconds.
At 50mph, that's about 70ft of road, or approx two and a bit cars lengths (assuming 2 second gap between cars) between when the bike came into view, and car pulling out / hitting him.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 11 years, 303 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.10 Sec - Server Load: 0.83 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 145.05 Kb