First off road bike advice

[clancy]

After some advice and information from some people more in the know about getting my first off road bike

being that i now live in south Devon on the edge of Dartmoor its pretty criminal if i don't get into green laning! been reading online for the last few days to get an idea of what i want etc.

due to not being the biggest guy in the world and having no off road experience im looking at getting a 250-350 size 4 stroke so its easier to handle and learn on, does this sound like the best option ? i will be primarily using the bike for green laning, only real road use it will get is getting to the lane.

Budget is around 2K, maybe a bit more if need be, seems like i can get bikes around the 2005 age give or take a bit. from searching around my options of bike seem to be:

Honda crf 250 ( L & X model )?
KTM 250 exc-f
Kawasaki KLX 250/300
Yamaha WR 250 F

Can anyone recommend any other bikes that might be worth a look ? Or what out of those do people recommend, pros and cons etc?

looking online i get the impression KTM have the shortest service intervals and the Honda engine seems pretty bulletproof. the various Kawasaki bikes seem to be the cheapest, although apart from the KLX which other models are street legal?

Also in regards to security, i am right in thinking none of the enduro type bikes have key ignitions ? so need to invest in a ground anchor and a chain as well ?


thanks for any help
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KLX 300r

[Fladdem]

Most enduro bikes don't have keys. So lock her up at home. I chain my ttr to my dad's varadero 125, that way they'd have to nick both or try and break the chain quietly.

Personally I like the look of the KLX300, but apparently quite small. So no good for me. I would also quite like a KDX 200, but you said 4 stroke.

However, I would go for the WR250F. Apparently the CRF250's, X not L, have valve issues. But it would depend on the owner, if the bike lives, preparing myself to be told off for a snobbish attitude, in a chavvy estate, and the guy comes out in a tracksuit, with tattoos behind the ear and he is a teen or twenties, I would pass. If the owner comes out all cheery, lives in a nice area, if the bike is in the garage and you can go in and see the garage, and it's nice and tidy. He might have my money, especially if he can tell me about how he serviced the bike.

Although that will apply for most off-road bikes. They tend to live a hard life. Usually put away wet, thrashed all the time, just washed with a pressure washer and crashed on a regular basis.

Although not sure how easy a full-on enduro bike would be to get on with as a beginner. I like my TTR for just green-laning, trying to be competitive though and you start struggling. Half the power of the least powerful bikes, softer and heavier, although easy to ride. my first enduro on it, I just put it in second and went round, did three hours without changing gear, I think I touched third once. But it was a tight-ish track.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

A 4 stroke does not mean 'easy to ride'. You do get engine braking which you miss out on the 2 stroke.
But a 250/300 2 stroke competition bike will be lighter, more flicable and have a flatter power delivery with more low down power.

WR250F, KTM250EXC-F and CRF250F/X are all competition bikes.
KLX250/300 are older and a bit less highly strung. CRF250L is heavy and slow.

To conclude, I'd get a KTM or Gas Gas 250 or 300 2 stroke model .

2 strokes have longer service intervals with less needing doing. If you're really stuck on 4 stroke, I'd consider looking at a bigger cc to start out. The KTM400 has a good reputation - it's just a sleeved 450, so you get a bit gentler power delivery and less stress on the engine generally.

For greenlaning, I'd be happy on a £1k 2 stroke.
For actual enduros, the lower weight of the newer more expensive bikes does make a difference - my 08 144 felt more like a mountain bike going down hills compared to the 04 200 (the 200 is just a big bore 125, same as the 144.)

[clancy]

thanks for the replies

my initial decision on a 4 stroke is purely because im just not a fan of 2 strokes, although granted i have only ridden little 2 strokes on the road a few years ago so maybe i should give one a go

just to clarify i didnt mean the 4 stroke was easier to ride than a 2, but that a 250 would be more manageable than a 450 size bike in terms of power and weight

im not planning any competitive riding, may be something for the future but for now just some green laning is all i have planned

Are the KTM parts prices similar to other brands? all there bikes tend to be a bit more expensive, just wondering if parts where too
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KLX 300r

[G]

Not sure on parts prices, but was is excellent with KTM is consistency of parts - a lot of parts are standard across their whole full size dirt bike range at least - so from a 125 motocross bike to a 640 adventure/690 enduro you'll find a good lot of the parts will either be identical or at least interchangeable.
This can keep second parts prices a bit high, but also means much better availability.

[Fladdem]

I would suggest a 250 anything. I hear the 250 2t are pretty tame, when 'off the pipe', not as much as the 300s though. I rode a ty250, and that was pretty torquey for a two stroke, although is a trials bike. And of course the 250f's are fairly gentle too. I wouldn't want a 125 for laning really, too peaky. I couldn't ride my mates EXC125 even if I wanted to. for racing, I would go for one without a doubt but laning is too much.

Most green lanes are rutted to hell, and almost always un-maintained and sloppy wet with mud, a peaky engine is not desirable in those conditions. Nor is a peaky engine desirable for a beginner to offroad.

I can't comment on other bikes really. But I have learnt from owning a rare(ish) grey import, to get the vaseline ready when you need to ring up the dealership for bits you can't find elsewhere.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[clancy]

yeah that is handy, nothing worse than having to pay dealer prices because you cant find parts

so as far as bike choices go you recon the KTM 250 EXC is my best bet? newer the better? bottom end of the market seems to be 2.5 K ish on them , need to do some hunting
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KLX 300r

[clancy]

[G]

If you're stuck with the 4 stroke - and I still think a 4 stroke 250 is a bad idea as they're the highest maitenance and most people I've seen have them for laning end up wanting bore kits or similar.
Something I never would have considered on any of my bikes bar the 144 which didn't have the zing of the 200.
Certainly never felt a need for more when laning on the DR600, 404E and definitely not on the Husaberg 501!

For 2 strokes I'd really not worry too much about newer, 4 strokes it may add a bit longer service intervals.

[clancy]

ok G cheers, im open to 2 strokes, its just my initial thought was 4 stroke. but if they have that many benefits its pretty stupid to rule them out

ill do some browsing and see what i can find for sale. still waiting for my TRF account to activated so i can look on their classifieds
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KLX 300r

[G]

https://www.enduronews.com/forsale.htm

A nice 08 Gas Gas 250 there, but most are on the new/expensive side.

[clancy]

Looks pretty nice, few nice bikes on there

Gonna work my way through your sticky list
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KLX 300r

[Fizzer Thou]

If the OP is just starting out and a green lane novice,any competition bike may well be a bit OTT.

I recently recommended a Yamaha TTR250R to someone else on here,due to them having electric start,air cooled so no radiators to bend,discs front and rear,reasonable seat height,low stressed engine and on some models a plastic tank as standard.

https://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e158/blimpman/Thumpers/ttr007.jpg

And as the OP only has around £2k as a budget,a TTR should be within easy reach.Once a bit more experience has been gained,then look for an upgrade.

Once the OP gets onto www.trf.org.uk then his local group may well know someone in his locality that may well have a TTR to try first,see how it feels and someone may well have one to sell.

Good luck and have fun
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[ian505050]

My friend has this for sale at £1000

Its a 2003 TTR250 Air Cooled and Road Registed with indicators and lights.

https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/ian505050/ian505050%202/DSC01260_zps0d8cd3c8.jpg

https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/ian505050/ian505050%202/DSC01261_zpsd42f06e4.jpg

The guy who is selling it much preferred my WR250F when he had a go on it, but i guess its a good starting point for green laning

https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/ian505050/ian505050%202/DSC01358_zpsc79ba77f.jpg

My WR250F in the snow

https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/ian505050/ian505050%202/IMAG2966_zpse63f5882.jpg

Awesome bike for green laning

https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii302/ian505050/ian505050%202/DSC01200edited_zps58dc71fc.jpg

[bladerunner]

I'd still say a kdx200 is an ideal greenlane learner tool! Or a CRM 250 if you can find one....my kdx last had a top end rebuild 12 years ago and still going strong! They are in such a low state of tune they are pretty bomb proof and plenty of torque for the technical stuff.......light as anything to pick up out of the ditch or hedge and start easy compared to a 4t after several hours off roading.....trust me they are forgiving little machines.....ask me how I know lol!
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Current bikes...cbr929, KDX200's, Rd125lc mk2, RGV250's

[mattsprattuk]

I have to disagree with you there G. You sound like a typical 2 stroke fan-boy.

Most of the ones listed have a competition and enduro variant.

KTM have EXC and SX
Honda have CRF/X/R
Yamaha, YZF and WRF

etc etc

choosing the enduro gives you a lot more time between services.

I had the CRF/X, and the valves didn't NEED adjusting until I'd put over 5000 miles on it from getting it (and the previous owner was the biggest retard you could have ever encountered).

I did oil changes every 2k miles or so, and it was perfect.

I had a KTM 520 (and very similar to the aforementioned 400 EXC), which was heavy and brutal, as well as a KTM 300, which is by all means an awesome enduro bike, but the fuel efficiency is the worst thing I've ever owned (bar my mito 350).

I've also had a KTM 400, but the old EGS model. Which is probably the equivalent of a TTR, slow and heavy and shit.

After all these, I've found I got on best with the 250 honda, as long as it's the enduro and not the racing model. Do a few mods and it becomes an awesome bike. Change the cam, and replace the X suspension with R, and you end up with a decent electric start, relatively low maintenance competition bike.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[G]

I certainl am a 'fan boy'.
Because I like them.

In the cases you list, they are competition bikes.
Just that some are more for motocross competition and some for enduro competition.

I've never been too bothered by fuel efficancy on a dirt bike in England. You're never far from a petrol station (or the pits in a competition etc)

You may have 'got lucky'.
Valve clearances are listed to be inspected every 600 miles on an 05 250x. Oil and filter changed at the same time (though it won't take much I presume).
Piston and rings done every 15 hours for enduro use (that'd be about every 450 miles if you averaged 30mph of hard riding).
Now with trail riding you can likely get away with pushing the piston and rings etc a fair bit.
BUT, I've seen enough people that pushed it on the competition (enduro) bikes just trail riding and ended up with very expensive repair bills from doing so.

A chunk more hassle to do piston and rings on a 4 stroke too.

I do quite like idea of the (newish) KTM 350, but they're still pretty expensive.

[Fladdem]

I'd like to recommend a TTR 250, but it's BORING! Does its job wonderfully, but I need to keep reminding myself what that job is. A commuter that can do a bit off the rough stuff.

Fine as a stepping stone for moving on, but my circumstances changed, when I wanted to flog it on, now I have ended up with keeping it and is now not economically viable to sell it. I have fitted a 265 kit, a high compression piston, I finished uncorking it, fitted a DG O series pipe, changed the gearing, which most do anyway and I am now looking for a header for her. Brian Sussex does a nice one, supposed to add another horsepower, but mostly it's in stainless so will match the silencer. Then maybe fork springs and a service.

It definitely livened her up, but she is still too small, too heavy and too softly sprung. A CRM 250 would have been the ticket, still maybe too small and soft, but wouldn't weigh as much and would have had the pep I wanted to begin with. Only thing was, a crosser attracts police attention, I was pulled more on that bike in 6 months than in the 2 and a half prior. So a policeman with any idea of licencing rules, of which I met two, would have known a CRM 250 did not conform to my licence.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.