Accident

[G30]

At first the other person admitted 100% responsibility but now is saying it's 100% my fault.

I was filtering on the left (stationary traffic) and he was turning right across the road to get on the correct side of the road. As I just go past the car that lets him go, I see him, well his bonnet, (at this point I'm side on to his car bonnet and going past him) but I'm already going and there is loads of room and go in front of him. A few seconds later (yes - a few seconds) he hits me quite hard but nothing too serious.

If I stopped when I saw him I would have been right in his turning arc and it would have been worse than it was. I have some bruising but it's nothing serious but it's lucky I wasn't a cyclist.
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KTM RC390 -- Kawa ER6f -- Yam YZF R125 -- Yam YBR 125

[Pete.]

Filtering on left = bad juju
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[mikesaa309]

Bit of a catch 22 really. Filtering isn't really illegal, unless you brake highway code laws such as crossing a solid white line or if you go a certain speed it's classed as dangerous overtaking. At the same time filtering on the left is way more a risk than filtering on the right although I have done so in certain situations but only if it's only like 3-5 cars that I'd be passing or if I'm really desperate to make progress and can't filter down the right for whatever reason, but most of the time I filter down the right of traffic.

But then the car driver should have been looking. Although observation and anticipation on your part plays a massive roll in everything you do on a bike. Presuming you know the road you're filtering down, you should realize the junctions etc down that road and if not should be paying extra attention for any massive gaps in traffic. Why is there that gap, is it to keep a driveway clear or because someone is letting somebody else pull out of a junction? Either way slowing down or even coming to a stop to access the situation is what you should have done.

If you were filtering on the right and a car turns into a right hand junction without warning then may be a chance of getting away with it, providing you weren't going overly fast when filtering.

As I say it's a bit of a catch 22 both of you could be classed as being at fault in this situation. Hope it doesn't end up with you being at fault though but either way it's lesson learnt without serious injury to yourself or anyone else.

[Polarbear]

Whatever is legal or not legal, if you put yourself in a bad situation, prepared to be fucked.

The ONLY (I think) time I really put myself at risk is motorway filtering as nowadays I rarely bother in normal traffic.

Sadly most drivers do not have a clue about anything but the basics.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Rogerborg]

[G30]

There was no way round on the right anyway. The traffic was very slow/still and I was like either filter up or sit back and it was only a short distance perhaps 20/25 metres I needed to go and it takes the traffic a while to move up so I went. The gap appeared as I got there and like I said I was already going past and if I did stop I would have been right in his turning arc and if he didn't see me before and with a few seconds to spare I doubt he would have seen me then.

I dunno if he was saying thanks to the car (how he didn't see a bike go past is bizarre) and just turned into me or what but a car was there before me so if I wasn't there surely he saw the car there and wouldn't have turned out like if he was pulling off onto a clear road. It was almost at the back of me - the end of my exhaust on the right side and the end of the right side towards the back is quite damaged. Like I said it was a few seconds later that he actually hit me and I had already moved up that's why he hit me at the back right rather than more like the fairing/my knee. My calf and ankle got hit I have some bruising but they're okay - I can sprint, jump, etc. There's some mild discomfort but it's nothing really.
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KTM RC390 -- Kawa ER6f -- Yam YZF R125 -- Yam YBR 125

[DottyDuck]

paint diagram needed.


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CBT- 2012 Theory- 18/12/13 Mod 1- 07/01/14 Mod 2- 15/01/14
Old Bike: Zontes Panther 125cc - wrote off Current Bike: Kawasaki ZR7

[Rogerborg]

And a word of advice: less of the context when you talk to your insurer, and don't say "filtering".

Just the plain facts: you were proceeding slowly and carefully past a clear junction before the car had started their turn across it, and the first you knew of them proceeding was being slammed into from the side.

/story, unless you had your lights on, and/or a bright helmet or jacket, in which case list them and say that you were complying with the advice in Highway Code 86.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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[MattEMulsion]

[treeno]

As Roger said, is the damage on the side of your bike and the front of the car? If so it's likely a done deal really. If asked just say you were crossing a junction and got plowed into from the side by a raving lunatic.
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Current ride: Ninja 500R

[G30]

It wasn't a junction. He was just coming across from another road that joins from the other side of the road where you can park for shops, etc.
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KTM RC390 -- Kawa ER6f -- Yam YZF R125 -- Yam YBR 125

[Andy_Pagin]

[shereen]

[CaNsA]

[Christoffee]

[Andy_Pagin]

Yeah but a bad paint diagram is a BCF tradition.
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the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
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[MattEMulsion]

[MattEMulsion]

Double post....
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Yamaha YZF-R6

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[thx1138]

[Pete.]

Nice one thx1138

At first I was WTF.... then I was
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[merquis00]

[Pie-Roe]

I thought you meant he turned right from the road you were on to a side road you were going past.

I wouldn't mention that another car waved him out as this will complicate things.

I'd say it actually is a case of shitty obs on both your parts for once. You noticed the car letting him out but still went?

These things happen though, and it might actually turn out that you weren't hidden from view by filtering on the normal side, so his blindness is actually more of a factor.
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[Teflon-Mike]

I'm still not sure I get the picture; but, I get the idea then that you were on the left of the white line, 'over taking' slow or stationary traffic on your side of the road, into slow or stationary 'oncoming traffic'?

OK... forget the word 'filtering' what you were doing was 'Over-Taking'. Filtering is a term that has only recently appeared in the highway code, and its defined as over taking in dense, slow moving traffic.

So 'Over-Taking'; and you get warning in highway code, that it is a 'hazardous manoeuvre that should be undertaken with extreme caution'.

As far as RTA is concerned, its 'at riders risk' so if you were over taking at the time of a collision, there is almost certainly some 'fault' on your part, as you obviously didn't adequately assess the risks; and quite possible that there's a charge of riding without due care and attention in there.

Harsh, but that's the reality. when 'Filtering/ Over-Taking' you have no clear-cut 'Right of Way'.

Thirty odd years ago, take away the traffic, a mate of mine was brought off, when a woman pulled out of a private driveway, while he was passing another car; much more clear cut, in so far as he was clearly over-taking, and it was definitely not a 'junction', and the woman turning left onto the road, had simply not looked both ways, and merely been intent on watching traffic from her right....

They didn't do the '% liability' thing in them days, but argued numbers; but he was still deemed to be in part fault, simply because collision whilst over taking implied driving without due care and attention.

OK, so car pulls out of a junction.... Hmmm this is where it gets a bit murkier... you should NOT 'over-take' past a junction. end of... if you were over-taking or filtering past a junction, THEN, fault falls even more on your side of the line.

Was it a 'junction' or an 'access'? And does it matter?

Junction is two roads meeting; Access is a private driveway, or similar. Distinction gets even more murky between the two, as if the 'access' is 'Council Maintained' can be deemed a 'junction'; so many car-park entrances/exits are deemed 'junctions' not access.
The parking 'slip' outside some shops or rows of houses; again, if council maintained, even though they aren't 'roads' can be deemed 'junctions' where they join the main carriageway.

But either way; if there is any 'confusion', fall back would be against you; you were the one undertaking the 'hazardous' manoeuvre; and IF it looked like a junction.... should have exercised due caution....

Why were you 'filtering'? Because traffic was not moving... and you could.

But WHY was traffic not moving?

Yup... because some-one has stopped to let some-one out of a junction!

Very fact you could filter, ought to have been 'clue' that there was a hazard up ahead you were about to ride into.

Almost exact scenario five years ago, brought my eldest down.
Traffic stopped; rather than put his feet down, he filtered into the middle.... BANG when taxi pulls out into the stream, flashed by another driver.... "Ah! so THAT was why no-one was moving!"

He was rather 'coy, about conclusion of the insurance settlement; having insisted all along it was 100% the Taxi-Drivers fault.... but he never got the full payout he expected, I think he got a 60% settlement, and in fact, couldn't afford another bike for seven months, as most of what he did get, went to pay his 'share; of the hire-bike he'd thought was such a jolly jape to get the Ins-Co to pay for!

So... conclusion, if I have read the scenario correctly; its no way clear cut the car driver's fault. You are at least in part at fault, under-taking hazardouse manouver 'over-taking' and not adequetly assessing hazards. Question is then how much are you to blame?

Between me you and the gate-post.... a heck of a lot! Filtering is great, but far too many folk do it with abandon, and just like my eldest, think of it as something completely different to 'over-taking', and because they are not going so fast when they over-take in dense traffic... some-how convince themselves its not as dangerouse!

I've had one 'bump' whilst 'filtering in the last twenty years. Didn't even bring me down! Car I was passing just tried pulling out of the queue whilst I was along-side... and made me 'wobble'.

So, entirely possible to filter, and filter safely, and applying due caution have pretty much avoided the accident. So, BIG fail on your part. Understandable fail... but still a fail. Learn from it. And remember, 'filtering' is 'over-taking', and its not 'safer' cos its slower! And when traffic stops, and you have a chance to filter... PAUSE and ask WHY it has stopped, and what you might be riding into!

So, now we shift from the real world, and into that of the accountants, and its not so much how much the other driver is to blame, or how much you are to blame.... BUT.... how much any-one should pay!

And on that score; you fight to accept as little as possible, but be prepared to accept some, and possibly a fair bit; there's a lot of possible 'faults' on your part they could 'spin' to paint you more in the wrong; car driver's 'fault' or not looking, could be easily played down.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.... and if they offer you a hire-bike.... tell them you are too shaken to ride a motorbike at the moment, you'll take the bus and keep the tickets!
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[G30]

Ey, if I stopped he would've hit me a lot worse. The traffic wasn't moving because of a red light and I was inside (the right) of the white line. When I was approaching the car that let him go, there was no space in front. The traffic moved and the car (that let him go) moved slightly and I was already going past and then the other car pushed in and the car alongside myself let him go, I went in front and 3 seconds later I got hit. If I stopped when I was going past when I saw his bumper, if he didn't see me go past then I very much doubt he would've seen me and would've got me worse.
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KTM RC390 -- Kawa ER6f -- Yam YZF R125 -- Yam YBR 125