Project bikes for a profit

[wupwup]

Next year i will hopefully be working as a retained firefighter, and have quite a bit of free time. Doing up a project bike is something i have always wanted to do, and i was wondering how easy it is to turn a profit from it. Eventually i would love to own a business doing up or customising bikes, and doing a few project bikes seems like a good place to start. Get some experience and business exposure. Is it viable to make profit doing up bikes, probably cafe racers, or is it a labour of love? Is it something you can learn yourself? If not where is the best place to learn the skills you need? There must be loads, from fabricating to getting the engine working and painting.

[N cee thirty]

Unless you'll be putting them up for a ridiculously high price and have time for them to sell, you won't make anything above what you've spent, nevermind your own labour, best left to a hobby
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

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[jjdugen]

Depends on how you cost your time. I don't include mine as an overhead because the government and some previous employers pay me a nice pension. If someone is paying for your off-duty time then that is a major overhead covered.
Cheap and cheerful will never make you any money. Spares and repair stuff on E-Bay is priced just below what it will cost to repair.... and that is if you get it right first time. The best things to make a fair return on are things like Monsters. Plenty about and actually very easy to work on. They sell well. CBR 900's are also pretty bombproof, customise easily and will always sell at the right price.
Make friends with a local paint supplier and engineers supply emporium, replacing rusty old bolts with nice shiny stainless goes a long way to turning a turd into a gem.
Go to autojumbles and pick up anything that is cheap, you will be surprised how often 'stuff' can be adapted to solve a problem.
Trouble is, you have to be good... every time. Sell a duffer, especially to a local and it can be a world of grief. Bikers, it would seem, want everything for nothing and can bitch and moan better than any pre-menstrual woman (and I've dealt with both).
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[wupwup]

It wouldn't have to pay mega bucks. Just be more profitable than sitting on my arse watching tv while im on call. I was thinking that dong up old classic bikes would be best, partly because they are beautiful, and partly because the people that had classic bikes in their youth will now have the money to buy a nice shinny version of a bike they had when they were a youth.

In a perfect world my firefighting wage would be enough to live off, and could price the bikes high and wait for them to sell.

[Vincent]

It'll not be easy doing up a classic bike and not making a loss......and can take a long time. Parts are hard to find and expensive when you do. To make the big bucks, it has to be a registered British bike with original engine and frame numbers and every part, down to the smallest nut and bolt, must be original as well as all the paint and finishes. You'll find that a lot of the classics for sale on eBay may go for a fortune, but the people restoring them would have put a lot of time and money into it. Most restorers do it for the love rather than the money and are content with getting back somewhere near to what they've spent.

Best bet may be to do up an insurance write off....something a bit newer.
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Space Is Deep

[Mez]

In my (very limited) experience, I would advise that don't make any plans for it long term, and learn to do your research first!

If you can find a little project to start off and just work on one, you might have it turned around within the week. Bikes that have a running engine but not much more on their side are great because you can get them cheap enough, and provided you have a decent set of tools, you can do most of the work yourself.

And remember, elbow grease is your friend. A lot of people pay for shine. Polishes, cleaners and sandpaper are worth their weight in gold if you use them right.

As for specialist tools, I imagine you can teach yourself on most things. Just bear in mind more advanced techniques will mean more expensive learning costs in wasted materials etc.
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[wupwup]

thought that might be the case. TBH, I was expecting it to take months, not weeks to finish a project bike. Still, I will try and buy a cheap bike as a fixer upper just to see how it works.

[MarJay]

I've done this on a few occasions, and I made money once. That was because I found the right bike at the right time from the right seller. If I had have bought that bike on ebay I'd have made a loss on it.

I'd be surprised if you ever made any money doing it to be honest.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Nexus Icon]

You'd probably make more money buying near scrap on ebay and parting it out.
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[A100man]

[smegballs]

I'd be very surprised if there is profit to be made.

If you want to a do a proper pukka job of things, replacing shagged chassis bearing and stuff, I'd be very surprised if you find clients who are willing to pay for that.

No doubt the odd person will appreciate it, but I'd hazard a guess that those people are few and far between.

[wupwup]

And what about customising motorbikes, rather than restoring them to be accurate?

I imagine things like this sell for alot:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qI3guZzE09s/TzlsSkfiC4I/AAAAAAAAHqw/XdLlxGX9IAk/s1600/bmw_r75-5_rat-bobber_fna-cycles.jpg
And I have been watching fast 'n' loud on youtube. Loads of people to this kind of thing with cars, there has to be some profit in bikes.

I bet there are tons of guys that think they can run a motorbike customising business and fail, but I bet there are a few that succeed, like the guys at OCC (although im not a chopper fan). Starting with a small bike and seeing if I can finish it and make any profit has to be worth a shot.

[N cee thirty]

[Shaft]

[RodYork]

[wupwup]

If i wanted to gain the mechanical knowledge to do something like this where would you suggest starting?

[RodYork]

[Shaft]

[N cee thirty]

[Baffler186]

[stevo as b4]

Just giving you an example with my own bike.
It's a 1986 Kawasaki KMX125 that IMO has been restored to possibly better than factory condition, i.e. Powder coated frame and swingarm instead of painted, and stainless steel wheel spokes, and some fasteners.

The guy that restored it, has spent somewhere I would say between £2200-2600 to get it to a great standard overall, without being let down by the odd faded or worn component that sticks out like a sore thumb. The bike goes on Ebay, and I buy it at £1550. So he is up to a grand down on the cost of the bike+restoration.

I've since spent over £200 on it doing things like getting new decals made, new gear lever, and powder coating a few parts such as the kickstart, brake caliper carrier, and having the seat recovered.

To my eyes the expansion chamber is now slightly letting the bike down, due to the finish and where it's been re-painted over corrosion etc. To have that nickel/chrome plated or high temp powder coated will cost probably £50-100?.

So getting every detail as good as possible could add hundreds to a nearly completed project that's already had un-viable monies thrown into it.

Lastly people say that the mostly 2stroke learner legal 125's after 1982 are the next big thing for buy back nostalgia for 35-45yr olds, in the same way that the sports moped era has exploded into the realms of fantasy pricing, where by only serial collectors or people that are determined to re-live their year of being 16 in the 70's can pay for these bikes in restored condition. There are people that will pay £3000+ for an FS1E etc, but it's a small market with limited buyers able to fund, so I do expect a lot have moved on and gone onto modern alternative machinery simply because the bike of their dreams has become unaffordable now.

I agree with all the advice in saying that simply restoring old bikes is very unlikely to make you any profit at all, and using my KMX as an example maybe shows better why people are not wanting to pay the costs+profit for a restored bike, when the same cash in my case could have brought me maybe a 2004 KTM 125EXC for example?

[Robby]

You need to think about your market.

Anything "customised" for £1-2k will be shit. It always is. To work out the value of such a bike, knock the cost of the customisation off the market price of a standard bike.

Proper customised bikes start at £20k, and are original and unique, with a very small pool of potential buyers. These buyers have the money to blow on something special, and will go to someone good.

There is an alternative though. Kiddies on 125s. Not much money, zero sense, zero experience. They will buy vulgar shite

Don't buy knackered bikes to do them up and sell on at a profit - you'll fail. People like me buy these bike, spend a lot of money doing them up, then ride them for a year or two and eventually sell at a loss. Spannering is a hobby for lots of people.

[caferacer]

Hi, I've had the same dream for a while now too.

I think about it a lot and I believe a lot of people fail in it by not branding themselves strongly enough. If you want to make it work on a large enough scale you'd be surprised at how important the image is to get right.

Customised bikes are all about selling your visions to other people. Buyers need to believe in your design and trust that you know what is cool / good.

Take a look at Pipeburn for inspiration - if you can get one of your bikes on there you'll be laughing.

Seaweed and Gravel, Dues Ex Machina, Machine etc. They sell their bikes for very good money but also sell a hell of a lot of merchandise. These days it seems obligatory to have a tumblr page going to push your inspirations onto buyers and it's more about creating a vision of a perfect biking life than the bikes themselves. This is easier in America because of it often following the American Dream and all the open roads of the Southern States.

This may seem disappointing but its how business works these days - creating a brand and keeping it consistent. Whilst few companies in the UK seem to have managed this in the way those successful American companies seem to I do believe it's possible.

I know you're not looking to do this on a large scale but I honestly think even in making a few special bikes you need to build an image - it's the only way of getting away from selling to friends of friends or on ebay where you'll never make the full potential value of the bikes.

You cant build confidence in your workmanship without a brand for people to recognise.

Just my opinion - feel free to disagree entirely.

[Vincent]

I disagree entirely....................

Nah...not really.

I think it can be a long hard slog to build a respectable "Brand" in the M/C industry in the UK. Ask anyone who's been through the long hard slog.
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Space Is Deep

[Rogerborg]

I agree entirely.

You have to sell the bike for more than the sum of its parts plus your time. That means appealing to the ballsack heart rather the head.

Have a look at Harley's ego-fellating marketing. It really works, and they're now comfortably outselling Ducati and Suzuki in the UK.
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