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Insurance Black Boxes

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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 28 Apr 2014    Post subject: Insurance Black Boxes Reply with quote

Does any body know in detail how insurance black boxes work?

I am looking for technical information about how they work, how often they update, what sort of data points they collect and their accuracy particularly recording changes of speed.

So far Google is only turning up very high level overviews of how they work.

Ideally I need technical documents, instructions (do they come with instructions?) or papers that detail how they work, if anybody fits them or works for an insurance co, if they could point me in the right direct I would be eternally grateful.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sent you a PM that may be of interest Razz
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Bubblin77
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PostPosted: 07:44 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I design the software for a major firm with over 20,000 trackers fitted.

Basically they'll know everything you do.

Can't hide from it, if it doesn't poll back at some point, they'll tell you.

Don't drive less like a complete tit, and you'll not be bothered by it though.
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 08:26 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubblin77 wrote:
I design the software for a major firm with over 20,000 trackers fitted.

Bubblin77 wrote:
if it doesn't poll back at some point

Oh dear. If you design software I'd expect it to get all explodey...

Cough, cough...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polling_%28computer_science%29
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Bubblin77
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, that's why I can never track any of the vehicles?

You know what I mean!
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covent.gardens
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubblin77 wrote:
I design the software for a major firm with over 20,000 trackers fitted.

Hope it's not Microlise, if it is then you're shit at it Very Happy
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Conzar
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing the company's are the ones who set the benchmark for over excessive cornering or acceleration, so they can say you're doing wrong when really you may not be,

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dydey90
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it may be possible to do all sorts of jiggery pokery, I doubt your insurance company will pay for that.

The box they'll actually install simply sends a GPS blip once every two minutes and from that it works out location and average speed. If you're out past bed time or going a thousand miles per hour, premium increases.

Of course, having data like throttle position, G force, engine speed, traction control feedback etc would be helpful, but the more complex the system, the more your insurer has to pay for the privilege.

Sauce: Bloke installing one in my mates car (sent by insurer) told me and showed me how it only connected to the battery.
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Bubblin77
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The info I get is

Location, speed, lateral acceleration and time, we can track doors being opened or closed, we can link into the obd port of the car or bike to get more accurate information if required.

It delivers information as/when so if a driver is doing lots of changes of speed for example, the sample rate goes up.

Driving on a motorway, we see only a single entry, For maybe an hour or so.

The data is sent on an as\needs basis, so if no mobile signal is present it stores the info until needed then uploads it, we can connect live to a unit to upload/download if we need to.

Any out if the ordinary actions happen, like an accident, as long as the unit is still working it can sample real-time to get a live feed.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm told that our trackers have 'alarm zones' that trigger an event if you go into a certain area. Might be something the insurers would be interested in, say if they found you at the local drifting hangout the same night every week etc
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Benson_JV
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I'm told that our trackers have 'alarm zones' that trigger an event if you go into a certain area. Might be something the insurers would be interested in, say if they found you at the local drifting hangout the same night every week etc


That's disgusting. So what if I drive somewhere that they think isn't a good area to be in?
Wouldn't have one of these boxes even if I couldn't get insured otherwise.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubblin77 wrote:
You know what I mean!

I've been screaming that at gcc all morning, but it's still not doing what's in my head. What am I doing wrong? Sad
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Bubblin77
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benson_JV wrote:
Pete. wrote:
I'm told that our trackers have 'alarm zones' that trigger an event if you go into a certain area. Might be something the insurers would be interested in, say if they found you at the local drifting hangout the same night every week etc


That's disgusting. So what if I drive somewhere that they think isn't a good area to be in?
Wouldn't have one of these boxes even if I couldn't get insured otherwise.


Only the areas stipulated in your insurance policy won't be covered, they can't stop you from going there or load your policy based on that, I.e. they can't dictate lifestyle, but can dictate times which cause more accidents.



But, remember you agreed to have the box fitted and be based on payment v driving. So it is a big trade off.

Just don't drive like a tit, and you won't be in the top 100 or bottom 100 drivers for your given profile, and you'll find the majority of the info will be ignored.

Company vehicle trackers are different as the employer set the tracking, ours can be no parking more than 100m from a job location, and no speeds greater than 65 mph (apparently for emissions!!)
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The Disapproving Brit
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Bubblin77 wrote:
You know what I mean!

I've been screaming that at gcc all morning, but it's still not doing what's in my head. What am I doing wrong? Sad


Try using Delphi instead.
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trevoriv
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I'm told that our trackers have 'alarm zones' that trigger an event if you go into a certain area. Might be something the insurers would be interested in, say if they found you at the local drifting hangout the same night every week etc


Geofencing - popular feature of plant and agricultural machinery trackers.

Some vehicles are now manufactured with a 'black box' already built in just waiting to be turned on and start sending data to your insurer/employer etc.

Apparently telematics is the future but im not convinced.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one rather large and glaring technological 'dependency' of all this...

It relies on UHF Radio Signals.

That's how the GPS system gets its 'fix' on your location, and its also how the box 'talks' to its controller's.

What would happen if... I had one of these boxes fitted, then parked my bike in an underground garage.... where there was no GPS signal or Cell-Phone coverage? Would just 'drop off the radar' to the controllers, surely?

Bit like high end car thieves, using steel freight containers as portable Faraday cage to kill tracker signals....
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Bubblin77
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
There is one rather large and glaring technological 'dependency' of all this...

It relies on UHF Radio Signals.

That's how the GPS system gets its 'fix' on your location, and its also how the box 'talks' to its controller's.

What would happen if... I had one of these boxes fitted, then parked my bike in an underground garage.... where there was no GPS signal or Cell-Phone coverage? Would just 'drop off the radar' to the controllers, surely?

Bit like high end car thieves, using steel freight containers as portable Faraday cage to kill tracker signals....


Ours Use GPS for location along with a mobile signal (triangulation) pretty much like your phone, ours also use WiFi in town centres to make the tracking more accurate, if you drive in a steel container somewhere as long as I've been pinged your location beforehand I'll have a pretty good idea where you might be,

As with anything you know its limitations and a determined thief will overcome it,

But your average 19 year wontvwant to be driving around in a shipping container for that long as his chav girlfriends want to pop down the job centre at some point.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrong mike

gps doesn't use UHF that's why trackers with uhf can be located in steel cages but gps cannot.

uhf will not give a location though just a rough direction. They are also likely to know its in a car park since the last location will be heading to it.
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jimspeed
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 29 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

my mate's car had one fitted, it had some kind of accelerometer box fitted with arrows saying front and top and it had to be fitted exactly level to calibrate it for the 1st 60 miles or so.
shame the fitters only fixed it with one screw so it soon fell down thru 30% or so and didn't calibrate for 3 months lol, every time he checked his insurance portal it showed a trip when he went uphill and the box levelled out Laughing .
scary bit is when you change insurance they will leave that box in and supposedly switch it off their end Twisted Evil so I wonder how many people are being watched without even knowing that the used car they bought has it fitted etc.
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Kai.Wilson
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PostPosted: 01:34 - 30 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never really looked into one but surely once fitted removed it and place onto an external power source and don't crash?
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Bubblin77
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PostPosted: 05:42 - 30 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kai.Wilson wrote:
Never really looked into one but surely once fitted removed it and place onto an external power source and don't crash?


But then it shows your vehicle never moving,
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 30 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kai.Wilson wrote:
don't crash?


If you could do that, might as well say you're a 50 year old investment banker with full no claims, 14 other cars and only doing 1000 miles a year.
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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 30 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont like the popularity these things are getting, in 5 years i can see this being the only way of getting insured at a decent price.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 30 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
I dont like the popularity these things are getting, in 5 years i can see this being the only way of getting insured at a decent price.
Or insured at all Razz
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 30 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
I dont like the popularity these things are getting, in 5 years i can see this being the only way of getting insured at a decent price.


That's exactly what they want!

If it's just one lead to the battery. Why not swap it to an external battery, then just take it out of the car when you're going to drive/ride like a nobber. Job done.
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