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Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems

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Az
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

So, I know the popular response is, it ruins your handling.

But here's my problem…

I'm far from a heavy guy (weigh around 60kg/65kg) so i'm hardly suppressing my suspension, but every time I take a decent left bend I scrape my left boot when my foot is tucked under the gear lever and no, I don't have big feet (size 8).

I'm pretty much cranking the bike as far over as I can and occasionally I will get a peg scrape if I put my toes on my foot peg rather than my heel and i'm still not using all of my tyre, which is clear by looking at my tyre as I still have chicken strips
(pictures of both sides of my tyre below)
https://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy178/AzAndBikes/IMG_1879-1_zps922afe95.jpg
https://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy178/AzAndBikes/IMG_1865_zps64fa7c28.jpg

Will jacking up my bike allow me to use more of my tyre and get lower without scraping the pegs Cool ? Also jacking up my bike will obviously get rid of this foot dragging problem (which I don't like).

TL;DR: On most decent left bends my foot or pegs catch the floor, will I be better off jacking up the bike, or are the negatives of having the standard dog bones/seat height not as bad as the negatives of jacking up the bike by 30mm.

Edit: Sorry about shitty picture quality, blame my phone, not me Very Happy
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Az
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add as well, when I sit on the bike the suspension does suppress a bit. Is it possible that my rear shock is shot and that it's causing the bike to ride lower, therefore the pegs are closer to the ground than they should be making it easier for them to touch the ground.

If this is the case, how can I tell if my shock needs refurbishing or replacing?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your phone is bad and you should feel bad. Razz

Is the suspension setup for you or are the settings the same as what they were when you bought it? Do you know if the suspension has ever been serviced?

Are you scrapping your right peg or just the left?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

hang off more.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 22:30 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

Az wrote:

But here's my problem…

when my foot is tucked under the gear lever


Yep. There's your problem!

Ball of your foot should be on the footpeg when cornering.
Easy to scrape your foot with it stuck forward.

You shouldn't be changing gear when leant over that much.
However, that's why 'race shift' is the other way around - so you can more easily change gear coming out of a corner.
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Az
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Your phone is bad and you should feel bad. Razz

Is the suspension setup for you or are the settings the same as what they were when you bought it? Do you know if the suspension has ever been serviced?

Are you scrapping your right peg or just the left?


Just the left mostly, rarely have the right peg scraping.

Suspensions never been serviced going by the bunch of receipts the bike came with the bike. It's a 14 year old bike with 16k miles on, so maybe it needs referbing?

I've also never touched the rear shocks preload adjustment, what should it be set at for a relatively light person?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fixing your foot position as G says should make loads of difference then hanging off more like MarJay says will mean you're leaning the bike less in corners.

For suspension settings I'd suggest asking on a Blandit forum cos they'll know more about your bike than the collective mind of BCF does.

MarJay wrote a thread about suspension setup way back in 2004 which should help you have a better understanding of how to adjust your suspension. https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=1050226

edit: typo


Last edited by Ste on 22:50 - 01 May 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to have mould spikes sticking off of your tyre = pussy....
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Az
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
You seem to have mould spikes sticking off of your tyre = pussy....


I know, I know Rolling Eyes

In my defence, it is a relatively new tyre, it's been on about 2 weeks and most of those 2 weeks have been commuting miles.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

My chicken strips are about 1/2 an inch wide....
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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 01 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

G wrote:

Yep. There's your problem!

Ball of your foot should be on the footpeg when cornering.
Easy to scrape your foot with it stuck forward.

You shouldn't be changing gear when leant over that much.
However, that's why 'race shift' is the other way around - so you can more easily change gear coming out of a corner.


This ^^^^

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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 02:10 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one here that does not give a shit if I do not use the outside edge of my tyre and have "chicken strips?" I still get around the corner, I even manage it at a decent speed.

I dont see what the fuss is about really.
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krarkol
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PostPosted: 02:16 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to rag my bandit like fuck around bends. I'd have pegs scraping out, be hanging off like an ape etc.

I still had about half inch of chicken strips. I'd say it's more the bike than you tbh. I had massive chicken strips when I had a 180 on the rear as the edges were almost vertical Laughing

It's the bike not you. They aren't built for it, the more you get used to it the more you'll realise. Biggest weak point for me was the wallowy suspension even with progressive springs and thicker oil.

Another 20bhp wouldn't have gone amiss either
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Wull
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PostPosted: 04:59 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Am I the only one here that does not give a shit if I do not use the outside edge of my tyre and have "chicken strips?" I still get around the corner, I even manage it at a decent speed.

I dont see what the fuss is about really.


Good man......
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G
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PostPosted: 08:02 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:

It's the bike not you.

If his peg was going down and he was hanging off, sure.
Bandit isn't amazing for ground clearance.

But that's not the case.

He's sticking his foot out in a position that would see it go down early on most bikes and that's what is happening.
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I scrape my foot on the pan euro if i've not got the ball of my foot on the pegs, sometimes the pegs go down, it's not a sports bike, it just the way it is.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

Az wrote:
Also jacking up my bike will obviously get rid of this foot dragging problem (which I don't like).


Think about that statement.... There is something seriously wrong with it...



































No matter how much you jack up or lower the suspension. IT IS NOT GOING TO ALTER THE HEIGHT OF YOUR FOOT PEGS.......
Only your arse

Rear sets are what you are looking for. To raise the height of the foot pegs. Or you can some footpegs that are adjustable for height Thumbs Up Laughing
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G
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PostPosted: 10:19 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

iooi wrote:

No matter how much you jack up or lower the suspension. IT IS NOT GOING TO ALTER THE HEIGHT OF YOUR FOOT PEGS.......
Only your arse

Rear sets are what you are looking for. To raise the height of the foot pegs. Or you can some footpegs that are adjustable for height Thumbs Up Laughing

Erm, seeing that the foot pegs and seat are on the same rigid item (the frame), they will both be moved the same.

However, that doesn't change the point that he just needs to have his feet correctly position to resolve the initial problem.
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Jefr0
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the hanging off more and balls of your feet on the peg.

But I also think it's down to the bike also. Below is a pic of my recent trackday on my Honda CBR 600 F.

Peg and toe was scraping, I was hanging off correctly and feet in the right place. I think I'm in need of adjustable rearsets so the peg can be moved so I can lean it more - I may be wrong but that's what I thought Smile

https://s27.postimg.org/e82ll3d03/IMG_4157.jpg
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I increased the preload on my SH300 from the minimum (1 of 5) to medium (3 of 5) to avoid the centrestand scraping as easily when cornering. I, also, weigh around 60kg.

The centerstand on it also starts scraping at around 6mm left on the edge of the tyre. However, I won't jack it up any more, not because of handling exactly, but because the suspension would have less leeway to track hollows in the ground.

There's two forces affecting the suspension when cornering smoothly on flat ground, besides the gravity that affects it when upright. Centrifugal forces load the suspension, and acceleration unloads it. If you're cornering while still decelerating, the rear is allowed to squat more than if you're accelerating.

Hard acceleration wants to lift the bike into a wheelie. That is, the rear tyre is trying to rotate the rest of the bike upwards via the chain, using the swingarm axle as a pivot. That's why acceleration usually unloads the rear suspension, despite weight transfer putting more weight on it.

tl;dr: accelerating through the corner will give you more leeway to use your tyre. Don't go crazy though.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

G wrote:
Erm, seeing that the foot pegs and seat are on the same rigid item (the frame), they will both be moved the same.

However, that doesn't change the point that he just needs to have his feet correctly position to resolve the initial problem.


Gives a good view

The gain from jacking up will not be the same at peg and seat.
Think Triangle Thumbs Up

If you want to lift the pegs the same amount. Then you need to raise the front end on the forks....
Not always something that can be done.

Agree. Can't see why you would have your foot under gear change while lent over.
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G
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

As the seat is above the pegs on a bandit/CBR, it should have a similar height change whichever end you do.
If you had cruiser 'highway pegs', then sure, lifting the rear wouldn't do so much for foot pegs.
Normally I'd advise matching the front and rear for raising/lowering, but for track work you often want quicker turning, which would mean a lower attitude - so raising the rear would make sense.
I would expect raising the rear would affect the pegs more than doing the front.
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Moxey
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Am I the only one here that does not give a shit if I do not use the outside edge of my tyre and have "chicken strips?" I still get around the corner, I even manage it at a decent speed.

I dont see what the fuss is about really.


Me neither I've always had a big chunk of unused tread on the sides of the VFR but keep up fine with friends on Thundercats and R6's, when I had my last Bandit 600 there wasn't a spot of tyre unused but I found I was going around bends a lot slower and tended to lag behind people on ride outs.
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Az
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

iooi wrote:

No matter how much you jack up or lower the suspension. IT IS NOT GOING TO ALTER THE HEIGHT OF YOUR FOOT PEGS.......
Only your arse

Rear sets are what you are looking for. To raise the height of the foot pegs. Or you can some footpegs that are adjustable for height Thumbs Up Laughing


As G said, raising my seat height will also raise my foot pegs.

Going out for a proper ride tomorrow, so will play around with the position of my foot and report back. I'll also be adjusting my rear suspension, just need to buy a C spanner first.
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G
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 02 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Will Jacking Up My Bike Resolve My Cornering Problems Reply with quote

C Spanner means pre load. Pre load should be set based on "sag" - it's likely if you're light that yours ma be a bit high already.
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