Today I did attempt - DH mountain biking - Watendlath

[qarka]

Being lucky enough to live and work in Borrowdale in the heart of the Lake District, I thought I'd give this cycling lark a try. My boss kindly lent me his mountain bike while my proper bike (ZX7R) is off the road just to get me into the nearest town and back. Having done that a couple of times (learning how to ride a pushbike again), I thought I'd see what sort of a "mountain" bike it is.

This is the route I tried. (Not my video)

Jesus it was intense. Never done any mountain biking before so I probably should have started with something a bit easier. Not having a helmet or any armour I elected to walk down some of the more gnarly bits because I was terrified of smashing myself, but the bits I did try . I'm hooked. Now thinking of selling my CB-1 and buying a decent mountain/downhill bike with the cash.

So all you mountain bikers, can somebody please explain to me (given that I'm a total noob to this)

The differences between a dedicated DH bike and a regular mountain bike. Ideally I'd be looking for something that can work for going up as well as down hills, is a proper DH bike no good for this? Is full suspension necessary? What are the guys in the video above using?

Hybrid bike - wtf is this? Mountain bike that is easier to ride on roads?

Is it worth getting the highest spec bike I can afford? I'd have a budget of around £500. Not bothered about buying new because I know I'll not get much for that money. Do mountain bikes hold their value well?

Thanks for your attention, and sorry about the dumb questions.
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[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

If you want to start DH or All mountain stuff, you'll struggle for £500. Will answer the rest of your questions in a minute.

Also, that isn't what I'd do Downhill, that's XC/enduro riding. You'd be fine on that with a Hardtail, I've taken my Hardtail down some "extreme" graded DH runs and been fine. A full susser would be ideal, but with your budget I'd stick to a hardtail.

A true DH bike is basically a full suspension mountain bike with beefed up components, long travel suspension and really stable geometry (they're crap at going uphill). Next are the all mountain/enduro bikes that are best going downhill, but can be pedalled back up, and are ok on the flat. A full suspension XC will be ok downhill, and far better uphill and on the flat.

Hybrid is an MTB frame with road/skinny wheels. Could manage those gravel paths ok.

They hold their value well, but it depends what you buy. If you buy something decent, you'll get a fair chunk of your money back when you sell. If you buy a Halford's special, it'll be worth pennies.

HTH.
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[clancy]

if your planning on doing the sort of thing that's in that video i would stick to a hard tail, purely because you'll get a better bike for your money and it will do what you need it too perfectly

hams answered the differences so wont bother repeating that

as for holding value, the better bikes do, provided they are not massively customised to you, to the extent that its useless to someone else if you know what i mean.

if your buying a decent bike second hand you'll get very little depreciation. i paid £250 odd for a second hand Kona hard tail about 4 years ago and id be surprised if i couldn't sell it for the same price now
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[G]

What bike were you using?

A hybrid bike is somewhere between a mountain bike and a road bike.
My hybrid bike is basically a road bike with flat bars - it has road bike gearing, wheel/tyres sizes (well, they're 28, so slightly wider than a road-race, but narrower than many touring bikes) and so on.
On the other end, you'll find what's basically a mountain bike with slightly more road biased tyres sold as a 'hybrid' - and anything inbetween.

If you're serious about off road, you want a proper mountain bike.

At that budget I'd go for full suspension second hand - much less and you're probably better to stick with hard tail (just front suspension.)

As above - a 'proper' donwhill bike won't do uphill very well.

I've had a boardman FS comp in the past and cost me about what your budget is - 5' of travel, but climbs pretty nicely. They're pretty light for the weight/price point with full suspension.

Incidentally, as it goes I was just looking at CB-1 for my mum - possible I could be interested in a px for my Carrera Banshee X.
The banshee is more orientated towards DH; the frame is based on an old Kona Stinky Design - it's quite heavy, but thus pretty tough. If you stay on the seat it actually climbs ok, but stand up and you're bobbing about all over the place.

Mountain bikes at the lower end do seem to be holding their value fairly well - the boardman model I paid £500 a few years ago isn't selling for massively less (mine was show room fresh.)

Having watched bits of the video (slow internet), I wouldn't call it 'downhill' really - search on youtube for 'downhill black run' to get an idea of what's classed as 'downhill' mountain biking .

[qarka]

Thanks for the replies guys.

A lot of information to take in! The bike I'm using is a Trek something or other (locked away in the shed ATM so I dunno the exact model), hardtail, rim brakes, those awful dual-type tyres. Not a Halfords POS but not anything special either.

TBH I'd probably be happy with something similar spec to this one, just a bit lighter. Maybe disc brakes? Definitely full knobblies.

So I guess a XC bike is what I'm looking for. Seems there's a substantial difference between "downhill" and "going down a hill" I'm gonna head to Whinlatter forest on my next day off, they've got a blue route and two red routes (and hopefully hire out helmets etc) so I can have a go at a proper dedicated trail rather than a steep bridleway (It's steeper than it looks in the video...honest ). Might have a better idea of what I'm after then.

G - it's a possibility, my boss is also interested in it (mid-life crisis) . I'm about to start work so I'll update this a little later.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
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[G]

XC bikes tend to be specifically very light with limited suspension travel - they're made for going up hills FAST too, but going down the other side won't be as fun as on an all mountain, enduro and whatever else they call them.

Personally, I accept an extra degree of effort going up for more fun going down.

Mentioned CB-1 as it might save you hassle - if you find you do have a buyer lined up, probably better just to do that .

[stinkwheel]

Whinlatter is ok but you'll have a better time if you head up into Dumfries and Galloway to one of the 7 stanes sites.

I'd suggest having an outing to Mabie as a startoff. They have green, blue and red trails, a longer touring trail, a dedicated jump/extreme circuit and a short skills course.

There are fewer people there, more mileage of trail and you don't get gouged for parking. Also the carpark is at the BOTTOM of the trails. It's at the top at Whinlatter.

Head up to the skills track and you can practice a few of the techniques and experience the obstacles you'll need to complete the various trails and decide what you want to do. Be a good introduction.

DO get a helmet. I don't normally wear a bike helmet on the road but it would be madness to do offroading without one.

Other sites on the 7 stanes have black routes, proper downhills and even a giant boulder course but the Mabie site is perfect as an introduction. There is an awesome single-track downhill section on the red route with banked corners which is well worth the slog up to the top of it.

https://www.7stanesmountainbiking.com/Mabie
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[qarka]

Thanks Stinkwheel, Mabie forest looks good. Unfortunately as the bicycle is my only form of transport besides the public kind at the moment, I'm limited to places with cycling distance. Whinlatter is only about an hour away from me. I'll definitely go to Mabie if I can get any of my car-driving mates involved though.
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[stinkwheel]

If you go into the mountain bike shop in Keswick, they'll sell/give you some maps and leaflets detailing some local road and offroad routes on various highways and byeways.

I try to avoid Winlatter in the summer because it's always hotching with screaming kids, tourists and walkers. Far too many people for my liking. I far prefer to get the place mostly to myself.

Dodds wood is another place to head out to, there's a few "informal" tracks round and about there.

Incidentally, you can get to Dumfries on the train (change at Carlisle). Mabie forest is about 7 miles of pretty much flat road from the railway station. There is a kick-arse wee campsite and bunkhouse up there too (about halfway round the MTB trail, you can pick it up from the campsite) if any of your mates fancied a weekend away.

Being in Scotland. ANY track is a mountain bike track from the point of view of access, you don't just have to stick to the waymarked trails.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[drzsta]

Whinlatter is not a bad start. The Red route has ALOT of climbing which I like.

[KLR600]

I've always enjoyed Whinlatter but then I've never been at peak times - usually in the autumn or winter during the week. I've no doubt that the place gets over run in the summer though! I haven't been for a year or so but last time I went the car park and visitor centre were at the bottom of the trails in the valley at the start of both the north and south loops. There are a few black graded features on the red route but they are well signposted and you have to turn off the red trail to get to the black graded bits so it's highly unlikely you will ride into them by accident (inb4 bad obs ).

If it's close then I'd definitely go and check it out but then once you'd found your feet I'd do what Stinkwheel suggests and go up to Scotland for the veritable smorgasbord of mountain bike trails!
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[Tristan.]

What kind of helmet do people go for for DH stuff? Would I look a knob turning up in a full face mx lid?

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[KLR600]

I use my KBC MX lid for downhill, never heard anyone say anything bad about it. Full on MX lids are heavier and sweatier than MTB lids but it's not a problem if you're used to wearing motorbike helmets regularly.
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[Nb]

[qarka]

So I just got back from Whinlatter. Learned a few things:

- Dual type tyres are useless offroad. I'd already swapped the front wheel for one with a disc brake and a proper knobbly tyre, but the back was the original dual one, made it impossible to climb anything steeper than a slight incline.

- Berms are fun. Massively so in fact. Especially when you gain confidence and start looking further along the trail for the next one and linking them together without scrubbing off too much speed. Until you hit one too fast and fly straight over it.

- Red routes are just a little bit too technical/scary for my level of ability right now.

- Locktite is important. Especially on caliper mounting bolts.

- Don't wear black on hot days, also carry twice as much water as you think you will need.

Surprisingly it wasn't too busy, although a lot of people were leaving as I got there. Probably because the forecast predicted heavy showers. I went in between shifts at work, got there about 2pm, left about 4:30. Managed to do the North Loop of the red trail and about half the blue one.

Definitely need a decent bike now.
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[G]

What tyres have you got and what tyre pressure are you running them at?

A lot of climbing steep stuff is technique regardless of tyres - you need to balance your body weight so it's far enough back to get traction, but not too far so the front comes up.

Suspension actually helps here, as it gives the wheel more chance to grip as well as softens the power delivery a little.

[qarka]

Front is a "Panarace Cinder", rear is a Bontrager Jones something. Huge visible difference in tread between them. Although I think you're probably right about the technique being more important. They were both at "fairly solid with a bit of give" PSI

I was alright on most parts, but when it got steep and loose the rear would just spin up.
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[G]

Bontrager Jones looks fine from google images - maybe yours is a bit tired?

A lower pressure will probably help, providing it's a big enough tyre to handle it.

And the rest is technique - as above, move your weight back and you should find plenty more grip.