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Matt B
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| Jestered1 |
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Jestered1
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 Posted: 09:00 - 15 May 2014  Post subject: |
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Good work on the warning for everyone but I'll be honest, anyone putting their head in a "Jiekai" helmet probably deserves a head injury or 2!  |
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Matt B
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map
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 09:15 - 15 May 2014  Post subject: |
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Point of order.
Your quote "Potentially lethal" does not appear anywhere in that article.
They state they are "Potentially unsafe". EDIT: Apparently it does. The following still stands 'though
It's the crash that is potentially lethal, the helmet in question may not give you as much protection in said crash as an EU approved one. Unless you're suggesting the helmets are creeping up on people in the night and strangling them?
A crash which is "potentially lethal" in one of those helmets is also "potentially lethal" in any helmet. The difference between the two is almost certainly not as much as most people seem to think. The trick is to not have the crash in the firstplace.
I also feel showing pictures of a shattered shell is unhelpful. You WANT the helmet to smash to bits, that's how helmets dissapate energy and why they aren't made of metal. It's also why many of the cheaper brands of helmet do better in imact testing than the more expensive ones.
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Last edited by stinkwheel on 09:50 - 15 May 2014; edited 1 time in total |
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| Matt B |
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Matt B
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| Jestered1 |
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Jestered1
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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Jestered1
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:18 - 15 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| TFA wrote: | they also have a label fixed on the back of the helmet with the numbers ‘GB811-1998’ - this is not a legal safety mark for the European Union |
Adoy, durrr.
That is, however, an actual Chinese standard for helmets. Given that most lids will be made there, why would you trust a BSI or ECE sticker on one? It's a country where companies have poisoned babies for profit, repeatedly.
I've never found a way to verify that a particular helmet model has been BSI or ECE tested, and I do wonder what the consequences would actually be for just labelling one as such.
Oh, I'm still awaiting the result of a FOI about the actual accelerometer results from that recent BBC helmet hit piece.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| deadwolf |
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deadwolf
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| Crazy Manx Man |
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Crazy Manx Man
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Rogerborg
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Crazy Manx Man
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| janner_10 |
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janner_10
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| Posted: 09:06 - 21 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Obviously the Chinese bikes are going to be a lot safer and still represent great value to some 
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| HotdogMcDraw |
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HotdogMcDraw
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| Posted: 17:47 - 21 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Worries me that stuff like that is on sale especially as speaking for myself, am still new to all things biking. If i walked into a bike shop and saw that on sale with a recommendation of a salesperson then i would honestly not know any better, unless i was told it was Chinese of course.
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Carvel
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HotdogMcDraw
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| andys675 |
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andys675
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 06:50 - 30 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Source on that?
Any E marked equipment should be labelled with the E number of the European country that certified it.
I do fully agree that the system is twonk though, because how would you verify it? I've yet to find any way. Slap an E13 on it, yeah, Luxembourg passed it, honest mate.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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BumpingUglys
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 21:04 - 11 Jun 2014 Post subject: |
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| andys675 wrote: | BSI (the old testing method)
Inspector goes to factory, picks helmets from production line and takes them to the testing room where trained employee uses these selected helmets to demonstrate they are of the requisite BSI standards and that he knows what he is doing with the testing equipment which is all calibrated where applicable, all in front of the inspector from BSI.
ECE2205 (the new testing method)
factory knows what the requisite standards are, but is never inspected and is self-certifying that what they are producing meets ECE standard, with no inspections, ever.
And that is why you can buy a chinese helmet from the NEC for less than £20, and they're still making money out of them |
For Clarity; To gain a BSI triangle, the helmets had to be submitted for INDEPENDENT testing to BS standard; a BSI approved 3rd party came to the factory and randomly selected helmets to test, then took them away, to be tested in a lab by independent technicians.... the independent test report was only part of the 'approval' though, and the manufacturer had to comply with controls to ensure that once tested, they didn't change the design or manufacturing process.
Helmets can still be submitted for BSI approval... and did you know that the British Standard BS 6658:1985, was the only BS referenced in British legal statute? Up until the EU harmonisation that deferred to EU standards that allow self-certing.
But if a hat has the British Standard Kite-Mark, it WILL have been tested, though likely now to only be found on older helmets, or top draw brands where a real kite-mark might 'add value' (or at least justify some of the horendouse mark up!)
Under the CE marking scheme; in theory the helmet SHOULD have been tested for full complience to the CE standards.. just not independently;
This is the difference; BSI Kite-Mark is an 'independent approval' to a defined standard, the CE mark a manufacturers 'declaration of conformance' to one.
But, the caveots is that the CE mark is merely declaring that the manufacturers 'believe' the hat to comply with standards... they don't actually have to have tested a darn thing! They merely have to be able to argue convincingly why they 'believe' it's good enough! (If and when they may be challenged on the matter)
In practice, most manufacturers will do 'some' testing; but by and large, their justification for the CE mark, will be based on the principle of 'Design Equivalence'; so if they have a range of say ten different styles of helmet, rather than doing impact absorption testing on every different helmet of every different style and every different size.... they will do impact absorption testing on ONE shell, and then argue that the other helmets in the range are made with the same materials, and will behave in a similar way, and that by 'inference' they will also meet the standard; they don't have to test every one of them to 'prove' it. Likewise they will test the break strain of strap rivets or buckles, then say. doesn't matter what hat they are fitted to, the strap, the buckle and the attachment is 'the same', so they don't have to repeat the tests umpety times wherever the same strap is used on different hats.
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:05 - 12 Jun 2014 Post subject: |
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Fascinating, if true.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 196 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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