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treeno
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Scammed Reply with quote

I couldn't fine any forums that deal specifically with this sort of stuff, so I thought where better to go for advice than good old BCF. Very Happy Before I start I realise I am a complete fool. I guess I've always been too trusting and being a student with relatively little money was blinded by the potential of this rather than seeing the risk... No need for a lecture on what an idiot I am, I already know!

Anyway, me and me friend fell for the 'white van speaker scam' a couple of days ago. Have a Google if you aren't sure what it is. I won't go into too much detail because it was pretty much the same method as is documented online. Anyway, we parted with £400 each and now have some knock-off speakers.

We reported this to the police and a nice officer set us up with an appointment. Just got back from that, and this different officer was not very helpful, seemed to be apportioning more blame to us than the scammers (yes I realise we are partially to blame, but we are the victims after all). In the end after asking her sergeant she claimed that it is a civil matter and I need to take it up with trading standards! I was pretty shocked by this but thought I'd go home and get some opinions before trying to escalate it. Am I right in thinking this was fraud and a criminal matter?

I took down the reg number of the van these guys were driving, and although I assumed it would be stolen or something she said she had looked it up and it was not reported as stolen. One of the guys also came into the bank with us so he will be on their CCTV.

TL;DR: Bought 'Acoustic Energy' speakers out back of white van. By the time we had paid and got home we find out unsurprisingly that they are no such thing. Police officer says it is a civil matter. I think it's fraud?
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J4mes
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You spent £400 on gear out of the back of a van?



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Sorry, not much help.

Tried citizens advice? Was there anything in the box, or just bricks?

Guess it could be "goods not as described" or miss sold but I'd guess they were both civil matters.


Last edited by J4mes on 11:44 - 18 May 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zero chance of a fraud investigation, try trading standards.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You paid cash, didn't get a receipt and didn't look in the box? Laughing
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lihp
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the fraud?

Your speakers aren't knock-off, just a shit brand that sounds like another.
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treeno
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilDawson8270 wrote:
What was the fraud?

Your speakers aren't knock-off, just a shit brand that sounds like another.


Well the fact that he said they were Acoustic Energy Radiance 3's and they weren't, surely? Looking at the definition of fraud this certainly fits the bill...

Ste wrote:
You paid cash, didn't get a receipt and didn't look in the box? Laughing


We looked in all of the boxes, but he only pulled them out half way (they're damned heavy) so I didn't get to see any branding/labels. The casing was solid wood and they looked good. Of course I was suspicious but I thought the potential gains outweighed the risk.
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Last edited by treeno on 12:04 - 18 May 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

A hard and expensive lesson well-learned. You must feel sick.

I can't see any way of "legitimate" redress because you are partially responsible by falling for it. However, as for "illegitimate" redress, why not use BCF as your starting point? Publish the reg no and descriptions, also use use FB, Twittier etc, ask people to share.

At least that way you'll use your experience to warn others and cut these scammers' profits.
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treeno
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
A hard and expensive lesson well-learned. You must feel sick.

I can't see any way of "legitimate" redress because you are partially responsible by falling for it. However, as for "illegitimate" redress, why not use BCF as your starting point? Publish the reg no and descriptions, also use use FB, Twittier etc, ask people to share.

At least that way you'll use your experience to warn others and cut these scammers' profits.


I do indeed! It has crossed my mind. Is there a way for a member of the public to find a registered address on a vehicle? Would be tempted to do my own investigations...
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeno wrote:
Is there a way for a member of the public to find a registered address on a vehicle? Would be tempted to do my own investigations...


You can request this from the DVLA but you'll have to have a very good reason and explain it in detail.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

treeno wrote:
Of course I was suspicious but I thought the potential gains outweighed the risk.


There you go. You gambled, you lost... Your greed caused this. I backed an 11/4 favourite yesterday... It was even a tipsters nap. The fucking thing didn't even place, so that's money I'll never see again. Like you I though it looked good enough to be worth the risk, but it didn't pay off. No-one to blame but myself. I'm not going to get all pissy and start slagging the tipster/jockey/trainer etc off.

I will concede that the people who deliberately set out to deprive you of your money are arseholes, but ask yourself this, had they been genuine and you'd made 100-200% profit would you have felt guilty about it? Given that for them to be so cheap, someone somewhere else would've had to lose out for you to profit?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised you got any speakers at all.
Whenever I've heard of this scam before the "mark" has normally ended up with a carboard box containing a breeze block!
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

What evidence can you produce that the goods were mis-described? Your word vs theirs?

Eh, it's obviously fraud by false representation as per Fraud Act 2006 Section 2.

It's also obvious that Dibble thinks that you're a contemptible mug and that they've got real crimes to be solving, like speeding, or Sharleene texting that Shardonna is a slag.

Complaint, professional standards, IPCC, Police and Crime Commissioner, MP, press. Chop chop.
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JP7
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Rogerborg says, you've got a case for fraud by false representation. Proving it is another thing, though.

Most frauds are now investigated centrally by Action Fraud, which is managed by City Of London Police. They collate the information and send enquiries out to relevant forces to investigate.

Try sticking a report in at www.actionfraud.police.uk and see what they say.
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Ariel Badger
Super Spammer



Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, do you want your drive tarmacking? I have a load left over from a motorway job we worked on earlier.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fifteen years ago I was on my lunch break when some bloke offered me just such a tempting deal. I declined, despite it being better than half price.
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Especially when it's some dodgy bloke in a van.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you still on your lunch break Question
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covent.gardens
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Scammed Reply with quote

treeno wrote:
I assumed [the van] would be stolen or something

Bet you assumed the speakers would be stolen as well, hence the bargain price. I'm sure the police refused to help for that reason. For once I don't blame them for not investigating. If you buy 'bargains' from the back of a van from shady characters you've got a bit of a nerve going to the coppers when it all goes wrong in my opinion.

Fraud is a serious offence hence there is a high burden of proof associated with it, the proof so far appears to be "your word vs theirs".
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
...Eh, it's obviously fraud by false representation as per Fraud Act 2006 Section 2
...
Complaint, professional standards, IPCC, Police and Crime Commissioner, MP, press. Chop chop.
JP7 wrote:
...
Try sticking a report in at www.actionfraud.police.uk and see what they say.

Why not try that online fraud reporting service.
That'd be actionfraud.police.uk.

I'm about to use it as got ripped off by a vet. Insisted I pay a bill for which I now find I'm not liable for as I wasn't the person who requested the treatment (so no contract existed between me and the vet).
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Last edited by map on 10:39 - 19 May 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what I've just realised?

Those demands for payment that Plodforce sends out to the keepers of stolen and recovered vehicles?

The costs that the legislation is crystal clear that they can only recover from the thief, not the owner?

Perfect place to report them. Very Happy
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an episode of Minder . . .
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Keir
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive got £1000 worth of laptop here for just £100 if you want.... I promise it wont just be a box containing bottles of water. Rolling Eyes

Why you ever thought parting with £400 to some random bloke in a van was a good idea ill never know.
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scorps
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folded arms
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keir wrote:
ive got £1000 worth of laptop here for just £100 if you want.... I promise it wont just be a box containing bottles of water. Rolling Eyes


Not even a P-P-P-Powerbook? ...No Deal, Sir!

https://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/053/210/topclosed.jpg
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willis1337
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 21 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

To get your money back, get (steal) a white van, sell speakers to two unsuspecting students.

edit (as I am feeling guilty taking pi55 as I have been caught out on a scam and lost 2.5k)

IMO police are a waste of time unless you hand them a conviction on a plate with supporting video / photo evidence, even then they may be too busy.

Learn your lesson, move on.
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Bomberman
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 22 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keir wrote:
ive got £1000 worth of laptop here for just £100 if you want.... I promise it wont just be a box containing bottles of water. Rolling Eyes

Why you ever thought parting with £400 to some random bloke in a van was a good idea ill never know.

£800 apparently :O
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