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Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
I work for a charity in a service with a contract with the local authority. The local authority re-awarded the contract to us this spring but have cut the amount they are paying for it by 20%. Consequently managment has told me today they want to cut my wage by %10. Obviously one option is I just get another job but that's not neccesarily the answer as othe charities don't pay any better and I can't get into any other business. So what can I do? Can an employer just slash my wages like that? My post is not redundant as obviously managment have signed on the contract so the work I do has been agreed to be done. Any advice gratefully received. Cheers
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.redundancyforum.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions/5112-can-my-employer-reduce-my-wage/
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
First up, they can't just cut your pay without your agreement. <edit> shaggy's link shows that they can after a formal process so long as it's 'reasonable'

But... Why are they asking, who are they asking and how much do you get paid?

If they're asking everyone because they're in financial difficulty and you get paid well then it may be worthwhile agreeing to a time limited paycut to help the business survive. Something along the lines of 6 months to help a struggling employer is not unreasonable.

If you're getting paid poorly and it's just you then it's another matter... How will 36 quid a week (40hrs @ £9) save an employer?

It's up to you where that balance lies and you need to decide whether you agree to their request...

If you fall on the side that you think they have reasonable motives but you still can't afford a paycut, you could offer to increase hours for a fixed time as a compromise too.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
The local authority re-awarded the contract to us this spring but have cut the amount they are paying for it by 20%.

Have they?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Boozehawk wrote:
The local authority re-awarded the contract to us this spring but have cut the amount they are paying for it by 20%.

Have they?


Yes they have. The charity can't simply be claiming this is the case when its not. Creating a crisis to force staff to resign would be constructive dismissal.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
The charity can't simply be claiming this is the case when its not.

Can't they?

Who would stop them?

You?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why would they want to cut your pay? Everything is rosy in the UK garden. Pay is rising faster than inflation. Immigrants are the be all and end all of the great recovery. Commuter fares are not rising faster than wages. O hours contracts are what all the workers want.

Stop complaining, you are jeopardizing the ruling elites life style. Rolling Eyes

And yes, they can do it if they change the terms of employment.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Boozehawk wrote:
The charity can't simply be claiming this is the case when its not.

Can't they?

Who would stop them?

You?


Its a poxy charity not the CIA covering up alians in the government.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
You say charity, I read business. Cooking the books and lying to the staff is everyday stuff.

What I'm getting at is that if they tell you 20% and it turns out to be, say, 15%, you're in a far stronger position to refuse to bend over the barrel.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
tell them you will happily do 10% less work as well, half day fridays for the win
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
hmmmnz wrote:
tell them you will happily do 10% less work as well, half day fridays for the win


I did offer that but we're contracted to do a certain number of work per week so if my hours are reduced by half a day then that's four hours lost off the contract hours.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
But the bottom line is what matters to you. Tell them to find their 10% by streamlining management, since it's management that's responsible for negotiating contracts.
Is the charity running in loss? If not, take the 10% out of the profits.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 27 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Boozehawk wrote:
The charity can't simply be claiming this is the case when its not.

Can't they?

Who would stop them?

You?


I know this is not strictly relevant (as I'm talking about a different geographical area), but I have a friend who commissions social care services. They have just renegotiated their contracts with all the charitable and profit making businesses in the county who provide services for them.

These negotiations resulted, without fail, in less funding. We've had a social care company in Portsmouth go pop in the last week as they are no longer viable concerns due to the the funding bunfight in their unitary authority,

Its been a while coming, but the results of cuts to local government funding are starting to filter down to coal face, it only gonna get worse from now on...
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 07:13 - 28 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
But the bottom line is what matters to you. Tell them to find their 10% by streamlining management, since it's management that's responsible for negotiating contracts.
Is the charity running in loss? If not, take the 10% out of the profits.


As a whole they broke even last year but as other projects are getting the squeeze then a loss this year. Charities have been stripping out management layers for years now.

The real problem is charities are useless at working together to negotiate a better deal. Their directors are more interested in PR and their own carreers.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 07:21 - 28 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Employer wants to cut my pay by 10% can they? Reply with quote
swampy wrote:


Its been a while coming, but the results of cuts to local government funding are starting to filter down to coal face, it only gonna get worse from now on...


Its been going on for years and not just from the Tories getting into government.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 08:04 - 28 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
hmmmnz wrote:
tell them you will happily do 10% less work as well, half day fridays for the win


I did offer that but we're contracted to do a certain number of work per week so if my hours are reduced by half a day then that's four hours lost off the contract hours.


well the only thing for it is to work less and bum around on the job more
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 28 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
So lets get this right. The charity you work for put in a low tender that could only be achieved by cutting staff wages and didn't notify the staff when they did so only when they won the tender?

If this is so I suspect you have rather a good chance at a constructive dismissal claim.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 28 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
So lets get this right. The charity you work for put in a low tender that could only be achieved by cutting staff wages and didn't notify the staff when they did so only when they won the tender?

If this is so I suspect you have rather a good chance at a constructive dismissal claim.


They put in a cost based tender then the council said they would award the contract but at 20% less. The managerial munchkins then just bent over pulled their pants down and said "yes".
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:36 - 28 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
hmmmnz wrote:


well the only thing for it is to work less and bum around on the job more


Because I have a bike my travel time is a quarter that of other staff so I already get my contracted hours done by the end of thursday so pretty much friday I just put my feet up.

Thing is in common with a lot of charity workers we do more work than we are strictly bound by the contract to do. So I'm going to start working to rule. That will result in less clients per year but still attending to the contracts hours. So the balance of would be clients who won't be taken on will cost the council and cause the reffering manager a lot of headaches. Put it this way, if the average cost to the council of someones life descending into chaos costs the council £5000 then its only going to take fifteen incidences to cost the £75000 the council axed from the contract.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 01 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
They put in a cost based tender then the council said they would award the contract but at 20% less. The managerial munchkins then just bent over pulled their pants down and said "yes".


So you are saying they took a tender knowing they couldn't achieve it without big cuts but didn't consult before hand?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 01 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does not compute!

Charity... yet takes council (tax payer money), how is that a charity exactly?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 01 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Does not compute!

Charity... yet takes council (tax payer money), how is that a charity exactly?


There are three types of business. Statutory (local and national government) and non statutory which sub divides into profit making private business and voluntary sector service providors (charities and not for profit social enterprises). Government national and local have certain legal duties to provide services. They can do that in one of the above ways. Usually its a mix of ways. For example your local authority will have its own road workers but will also employ private companies on contract. They will have old folks homes but may contract a charity to staff those homes but the building and any physical resources will remain in the local authority domain.

To answer your question, its a charity because it does not make a profit or provide a dividend to any stakeholders. This causes a major problem because if a service run by a charity with money from public funding makes a profit (IE has a surples after meeting costs) that surples (read profit) can be taken back by the funding body (council)

Its a common misconception that charities are largely funded by public contributions and staffed by volanteers. The only charity which supposedly achieves this is the RNLI. Charities are mostly funded by local and national gorvernments, charitable trusts and endowments. For example the mob I work for costs £10,000,000 per year. Its fundraising activities made only £21,500 from the public.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 01 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:


So you are saying they took a tender knowing they couldn't achieve it without big cuts but didn't consult before hand?


Worse. When putting in a tender its a requirment that the organistation is structurally, legally and finacially capable of carrying out the contract. They have to sign a document on the tender and provide evidence for this. So there is a big question over that matter alone. I saw my union rep on friday and they're going to look deeper into it.
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 06:14 - 03 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Find a new job.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 07:20 - 03 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fisty wrote:
Find a new job.


Obviously.

This is what's happening across the sector. People are leaving and its getting harder to recruit skilled experienced staff. The people who run charities don't give a shit though. They're more interested in beleiving their own PR and ticking off boxes to keep inspection happy and pulling in their high wages.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 12 years, 167 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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