Bike bought has a SORN and a current tax disc **Updated**

[busbar]

In readiness for my CBT next week I am, as of today, the proud owner of a pretty decent YBR 125. The bike currently has a declared SORN because the seller has been using another bike for the past few weeks and so swapped his insurance over, but it does still have a current tax disc, valid until July. If my understanding is correct, and any vehicle sold has its associated SORN cancelled, because the bike still has a current tax disc does this mean all I now have to do to get the bike road legal is to insure it?

[Rogerborg]

What you're calling a tax disc is the "vehicle license". You have the license, you're good to go. /story.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[weasley]

DVLA are of the opinion that it is impossible to SORN and retain a tax disc, because you can only SORN if you either run out of tax or surrender it. The legislation is inconclusive at best, but I got a letter from them saying the above after I asked them this question.

As you say though, SORN is cancelled upon transfer of registered keeper, and since you have a RFL then you meet the minimum legal requirement to use on the road (assuming licence and insurance).

Whether the PNC agrees is another matter. What does it say if you look up on the DVLA website?
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[Rogerborg]

[MC]

Surely if its showing as taxed online and you have the tax disc your good regardless, as it won't flag up on ANPR systems & you won't get fines for failure to display. Actually just checked my bike which still shows as taxed, even though I sorn'd & returned the tax disc last month
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Yamaha MT-03 '08 (crashed)
Honda XR-125L '04

[busbar]

I just did the DVLA online enquiry and the Vehicle Status section states 'SORN in place' but the vehicle licence/tax disc is clearly displayed on the bike and expires 31/07/14.

I insured the bike last night so, with my CBT complete and L plates attached, as I understand it I should be ready to roll. If I were to get pulled, from a licensing perspective, I can't see what law I'd be contravening. Having bought a bike with a valid vehicle licence, had the seller not told me otherwise, I'd have had no reason to suspect the bike had been declared off road anyway.

[Rogerborg]

[busbar]

[Rogerborg]

Fair enough. To save yourself any hassle, you could contact the DVLA and ask them to remove the SORN flag immediately, rather than waiting for the change of keeper.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[busbar]

**Update**

Yesterday I received the revised V5C with my details on and, out of curiosity, I went onto the online vehicle enquiry website. My bike's vehicle status is now showing as 'Unlicenced with keeper change' so according to that I am now riding illegally.

I have contacted the DVLA using their online facility and now await a response as to why my bike is unlicenced when there is a tax disc fixed to it that says otherwise.

[Rogerborg]

Good man.

So we're crystal clear, the round papery thing with a date on it is the "vehicle license". If you have it, you have it.


____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[weasley]

See attached, if it helps.

The gist of it is, they have their cause and effect the wrong way round. They essentially say you can not have a valid SORN if a tax disc exists, which means if you declare SORN but keep the tax disc then the SORN is invalid and you could be done under Continuous Insurance Enforcement (if you subsequently don't insure the vehicle).

The lulz of it is, if you declare SORN but keep the tax disc, they will cheerfully update the database showing the vehicle is SORN, even though they say this situation can not exist.

Of course come October all this will be moot as declaring SORN (or selling a vehicle) will automatically revoke any remaining VED and initiate a refund of any outstanding value. Maybe.
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[Rogerborg]

Hilarious, isn't it? I agree, the vehicle is licensed, but it's not SORNed. At least, not properly. However, if DVLA choose to record it as such, that's their bag. Nobody else is going to chase you up.

I've also had an informed, cogent response from them, regarding driver licensing. In both cases, what they're essentially saying is that they do actually understand the issue and the law, that their system is wrong, that they know that it's wrong, and that they don't care.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[busbar]

Those letters make interesting reading - it's all becoming as clear as mud isn't it?

So the previous owner of my bike declared it as SORN, it was classed as SORN online when I bought it, yet it wasn't SORN at all because he didn't surrender the tax disc and have the remaining vehicle licence duty refunded.

I await my reply from the DVLA with anticipation. I expect to read a mention of the automatic £80 fine for it being unlicenced and not SORN, but I can't SORN it because I've got a tax disc relating to a current vehicle licence.

[busbar]

Well I think it's now been sorted, but dealing with the DVLA is far from straightforward.

I received an email response the following day which went into great detail on my further options for SORN and the penalties contravening the rules and, initially, I didn't think they'd answered my query on reversing the 'unlicenced' status. However, buried in the middle of the email was the line 'If you wish to reinstate the disc for the remainder of its duration' and a telephone number to call.

After a few minutes of navigating some lengthy menu options and waiting, I finally spoke to a friendly-sounding girl who, after taking all my details, began to give me a bit of a telling off for the previous owner not sending in the tax disc/laws had been broken/someone would be responsible for this etc. I gave a suitable, but reasonably polite response along the lines of I couldn't give a toss, I've done nothing wrong and I'd like my bike re-licenced please, but I was then asked for the serial number of the tax disc. As I was at work I didn't have this to hand I was told nothing else could be done and I would have to ring back.

So I got home, rang again, navigated the menus etc. and this time got through to a rather brusque-sounding female who I suspect had more than her fair share of testosterone floating around. In fairness to her though, after again supplying all my details, she put me on hold for a couple of minutes and then told me that all the information had now been transferred to the correct department and I am now re-licenced and OK to ride although I should receive a letter in around four weeks confirming this.

No need to supply the tax disc serial number after all then.

So, fingers crossed, officially all is now legal and above board but I can't help feeling that this SORN/re-licencing procedure is all a bit vague and flawed.

[map]

Can anyone supply me with the information as to when and how the vehicle tax (road tax, vehicle excise duty) changed from being with the vehicle to being with the owner?

That's as in the above 'previous owner not sending in the tax disc/laws had been broken' and I believe the new system of non-display (from October) that somehow invalidates the tax when vehicle sold.

If you can provide the statute as well that'd be good (Rogerborg, I'm looking at your ballpark ).

...because in my head if it's still a vehicle excise duty then it should stay with the vehicle, it's not a owner of the vehicle excise duty
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...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?

[Rogerborg]

No, I'm not Gilesing it, because they're just being mongs.

The law changes in October, so until October it's a moot point.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike