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Licence Category Shenanigans

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von1papen
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Licence Category Shenanigans Reply with quote
So I sent my licence in to get my C1 & C provisional entitlements added. Took photocopies of both parts of my licence before I did etc

Its came back with the new bike categories on it!

I passed my A/A2 whatever it used to be on 12/01/12

I've now got

A1 - 12/01/12
A2 - 12/01/14
A - 12/01/12

I imagine they've got the A2 pass date from when my restriction expired, however as it stands on my licence that would mean I passed my A2 (new type) test in 2014, 2 years after completing my full A?

Don't want insurance companies telling me I haven't had my licence for 2 years.

I imagine I should ask the DVLA to clarify and amend my licence?
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zark
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 18 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I dunno what the Doovla are playing at TBH.

I've never taken a motorbike test in my life - but when i renewed my licence it came back with Category AM and A shown as valid.

The dates for everything else run from the time i passed the tests (car & C1, D1 etc) but for the AM and A they run from the date the new licence was issued.

Did a quick poll in the office and it's happened to most of us that have renewed lately...

It's never occurred to me to ride a big bike, as if i had passed the tests though.
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Llama-Farmer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmmm I'd get written confirmation from DVLA, and keep it with test pass certificate as well, then you've got proof of when you passed if you do ever need it.


I seem to recall there are problems for people who passed tests way back when before the DVLA existed, and all the local departments sent the details to be put on the centralised database and they just put a pass date of "> xx/xx/xxxx" i.e. before that date... even today it still causes problems because there is a disparity between details.
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weasley
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
zark wrote:
I dunno what the Doovla are playing at TBH.

I've never taken a motorbike test in my life - but when i renewed my licence it came back with Category AM and A shown as valid.

The dates for everything else run from the time i passed the tests (car & C1, D1 etc) but for the AM and A they run from the date the new licence was issued.

Did a quick poll in the office and it's happened to most of us that have renewed lately...

It's never occurred to me to ride a big bike, as if i had passed the tests though.


No doubt the A category has the 79(tri) code associated with it though? This doesn't mean you have a bike licence, it means you have a trike licence.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Licence Category Shenanigans Reply with quote
Why on earth did you send them your license rather than ticking the "lost" box? Doh!

von1papen wrote:
I passed my A/A2 whatever it used to be on 12/01/12

You tell us. What bike did you use for the tests?

von1papen wrote:
I imagine they've got the A2 pass date from when my restriction expired

So you passed on a "standard" motorcycle, 120-125cc capable of 100kph, and got an A license restricted to 25kW for 2 years?

If there's no "79(tri)" on the A row, forget it, you're good to go.

If there's "79(tri)" then kick up a stink, big time, because they've nobbed you.

The old "A <= 25kW" has no new equivalent. Certainly not "A2". However, just to confuse things, the DVLA used to record it as "A2" under "previous entitlement" on the paper counterpart, after the 25kW restriction expired. They admitted (in correspondence) that this was utter twonk, but "we're the DVLA, we can do whatever we want, so screw your face" (slightly paraphrased).

Whatever you do, don't send them your license again, and treat your pass certificate (you do still have it, right?) as though it were made of gold. More than gold, Alyson Hannigan's panties.
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carvell
Scuttler



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Licence Category Shenanigans Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
However, just to confuse things, the DVLA used to record it as "A2" under "previous entitlement" on the paper counterpart, after the 25kW restriction expired.

They still do - I changed my address so got a super-new style licence with the millions of categories on the back, and they still record my old 33bhp test pass as "A2" under "Previous Entitlements".
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von1papen
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 29 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unfortunately my pass certificate disappeared long ago Crying or Very sad

Yes I passed on a CG125.

I'll have to send it in again as I've just changed address. Or should I send them photocopies of both licences and point out the inconsistencies?

Thankfully we've still got our own DVLNI in Coleraine who aren't quite as bad as Swansea, (until it closes down in a few months time.)

I'm thinking I'll ask for all three categories to be dated the same and see what happens.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 03:17 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Licence Category Shenanigans Reply with quote
von1papen wrote:
I passed my A/A2 whatever it used to be on 12/01/12

I've now got

A1 - 12/01/12
A2 - 12/01/14
A - 12/01/12


Makes sense to me; but I'm not an insurance co!

Test dates is not what is at issue here; its the date 'entitlement' is awarded.

You took 'the' motorcycle test, for 'the' A-group entitlement, 12th Jan 2012, a year before there was such thing as an A2 licence catagory.

Testing on a 125, you instantly gained A1 entitlement for 125's, 'cos you passed test that gave you it; you also gained full 'A' licence entitlement, to ride any bike you liked, as that was only other motorcycle group at the time; BUT with an endorsement 'suspending' entitlement for anything over 33bhp for two years.

So, date of A entitlement, DID commence 12/01/12...

A2 entitlement didn't exist until 30th(?) January 2013; so that would be the earliest your A2 entitlement could have come into force, BUT, with 'old' restriction in force, you didn't become eligible for A2 entitlement until your restriction lapsed, 12/01/14.

You couldn't ride bikes over 33bhp on your 'A' entitlement until then; but, you had gained 'A' entitlement, with now lapsed restriction, and have held your full licence and full 'A' entitlement since date of passing test.... something that by 'Grandad-rights' they cant take away from you... which they were doing to some folk who sent licences in to be updated and got thier A entitlement brought forwards two years, implying they had never had a 'full' motorcycle licence when they had, making insurance co's call them liars.

Looks to me then to be perfectly reasonable, and that some-one has mentioned the Human-Rights act to some-one at DVLA!
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 07:29 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
von1papen wrote:
I'm thinking I'll ask for all three categories to be dated the same and see what happens.

The problem is that the way the DVLA were working it was that they put the date of your "A" entitlement as 2 years after your "standard" (old system) test pass.

So what I'd expect to see is:

A1 - 12/01/12
A2 - 12/01/14
A - 12/01/14

A2 isn't really relevant, other than that it's a subset of A.

Again: is there a "79(tri)" on the A line? If not, I'd be hesitant to poke that hornet's next as they've actually helped you out by giving you A from the date of your test pass rather than your restriction expiry.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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von1papen
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 07:37 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can see where they're coming from with it, but if you're taking these as new categories, then surely it would be a physical impossiblity for me to 'pass' the A2 2 years after A, especially considering I'm currently 23 (would need to have done it well before so I could get A).

Who knows....... Laughing

No Trike subset though thankfully!

As you say I've got the important one at the right date, it just seems strange. I might test the water and ask them to clarify. So at least I have in writing what their musings are on the whole thing, will post it up if I get it.

The Coleraine office isn't too bad for this sort of thing.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
von1papen wrote:
No Trike subset though thankfully!

Then least said... Shhh!

von1papen wrote:
As you say I've got the important one at the right date

It's the "wrong" date though, at least according to how they've traditionally done it. "From" used to show when you got the entitlement, not when you passed the test. My license shows my "A" entitlement "from" 2 years after I passed my (125cc) test.

I had a good bawww at them over it, because it does cause insurance problems but they weren't for sorting it.

If they've changed their mind on that, then I might "lose" another license and get a fresh copy. Wink
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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von1papen
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I do have to send it back to get my address changed now, (got married).

Along with all my V5s!

Do I send it or does it get lost.... hmmmmm
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Llama-Farmer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tef's explanation sounds right.


A1 passed before the 3DLD meant full licence on restricted power for 2 years. So it'll have been A < 33kw on the back of the old licences iirc.

In which case they should have no need to put the A2 on there because by the time you can ride an A2 bike, you can ride any bike.
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Current Bike: 1999 Honda CB600 FX Hornet
Next Bike: I want a CBR-RR. And I want an F800 GS-A. And a VFR 800. Can I have all 3?
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
LlamaFarmer wrote:
A1 passed before the 3DLD meant full licence on restricted power for 2 years. So it'll have been A < 33kw on the back of the old licences iirc.

This is an issue about strict correctness. Tut Tut

von1papen wrote:
I do have to send it back to get my address changed now, (got married).

No, you do not. There's a "Lost" box that you can check, which I always do. I'm over so forgetful.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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weasley
World Chat Champion



Joined: 16 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not so careless, just a bit tardy. When I moved home last year I sent off the application online and really was going to get around to sending off the old licence, as requested, but wouldn't you know it the new one turned up before I had got around to it. Once I had verified all was ok on the new one, I finally got around to sending the old one off.
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von1papen
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Being in Northern Ireland means we can't doanything online, no on line applications, online Taxing etc

Swansea DVA wouldn't let Coleraine Office have the system as they wanted them to merge.

So I look forward to the tales of woe I read about on here when I have to start sending stuff over the water Evil or Very Mad
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Ali in Austria
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 18 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
zark wrote:
I dunno what the Doovla are playing at TBH.

I've never taken a motorbike test in my life - but when i renewed my licence it came back with Category AM and A shown as valid.

The dates for everything else run from the time i passed the tests (car & C1, D1 etc) but for the AM and A they run from the date the new licence was issued.

Did a quick poll in the office and it's happened to most of us that have renewed lately...

It's never occurred to me to ride a big bike, as if i had passed the tests though.


What does it show under provisional entitlement on the paper counterpart? The licence is in 2 parts and both form your actual licence.
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