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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Facebook's new messaging app - shocking terms of service Reply with quote

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-fiorella/the-insidiousness-of-face_b_4365645.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

From the article:

Quote:
If you're one of those 1,000,000,000 people who have downloaded this app, take a moment to read the following. I've posted, word for word, a few of the most aggressive app permission you've accepted.


- Allows the app to change the state of network connectivity

- Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention. This may result in unexpected charges or calls. Malicious apps may cost you money by making calls without your confirmation.

- Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges. Malicious apps may cost you money by sending messages without your confirmation.

- Allows the app to record audio with microphone. This permission allows the app to record audio at any time without your confirmation.

- Allows the app to take pictures and videos with the camera. This permission allows the app to use the camera at any time without your confirmation.

- Allows the app to read you phone's call log, including data about incoming and outgoing calls. This permission allows apps to save your call log data, and malicious apps may share call log data without your knowledge.

- Allows the app to read data about your contacts stored on your phone, including the frequency with which you've called, emailed, or communicated in other ways with specific individuals.

- Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device, such as your name and contact information. This means the app can identify you and may send your profile information to others.

- Allows the app to access the phone features of the device. This permission allows the app to determine the phone number and device IDs, whether a call is active, and the remote number connected by a call.

- Allows the app to get a list of accounts known by the phone. This may include any accounts created by applications you have installed.


I know people often go on about the T&Cs and privacy concerns of apps and the likes, but this one seems to really be pushing it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Facebook

/thread
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd imagine it doesn't even matter if text messages/photos have been deleted on the phone - since these reside on the storage device until over-written no doubt these would be retrieved as well.

But don't worry, they'll never share that information with I dunno, the police....or your employer....or prospective employers etc.

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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Facebook's new messaging app - shocking terms of service Reply with quote

- Allows the app to change the state of network connectivity -
For use when placing a call to a contact, assuming you have sync'd your phone contacts with your facebook contacts

- Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention. This may result in unexpected charges or calls. Malicious apps may cost you money by making calls without your confirmation. -
See above.

- Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges. Malicious apps may cost you money by sending messages without your confirmation.
As above.

- Allows the app to record audio with microphone. This permission allows the app to record audio at any time without your confirmation. -
For use when sending a voice message to a contact.

- Allows the app to take pictures and videos with the camera. This permission allows the app to use the camera at any time without your confirmation. -
Do I have to state the obvious?

- Allows the app to read you phone's call log, including data about incoming and outgoing calls. This permission allows apps to save your call log data, and malicious apps may share call log data without your knowledge. -
The app will need to add the call you make to the call log list and will need to see when the call was placed.

- Allows the app to read data about your contacts stored on your phone, including the frequency with which you've called, emailed, or communicated in other ways with specific individuals. -
"Message sent at xx:xxpm"

- Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device, such as your name and contact information. This means the app can identify you and may send your profile information to others. -
OH NOES! Facebook, that thing that i have an account with and has my name on my profile and has a list of all my mates on it wants access to my name and my list of mates

- Allows the app to access the phone features of the device. This permission allows the app to determine the phone number and device IDs, whether a call is active, and the remote number connected by a call. -
Used for security actually, so you can see the logs of when your facebook account was accessed, and from what device.

- Allows the app to get a list of accounts known by the phone. This may include any accounts created by applications you have installed. -
"Find friends on facebook by importing your contacts from hotmail, gmail, etc etc"



/thread.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why does it need unrestricted access without confirmation? I mean, surely when I'm sending a picture message, then sure, it requires the access then, for a few seconds, why does it get no holds barred access the remainder of the time?

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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostRider wrote:
So why does it need unrestricted access without confirmation? I mean, surely when I'm sending a picture message, then sure, it requires the access then, for a few seconds, why does it get no holds barred access the remainder of the time?

GhostRider


Le Me sending a picture to a friend on facebook

Do you want to give Facebook access to you gallery? - Yes
Do you want let Facebook add this image to you message? - Yes
Do you want to.... ARRRRRRRGGGGG FUCK OFF AND JUST SEND THE FUCKING PICTURE!
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostRider wrote:
I'd imagine it doesn't even matter if text messages/photos have been deleted on the phone - since these reside on the storage device until over-written no doubt these would be retrieved as well.

But don't worry, they'll never share that information with I dunno, the police....or your employer....or prospective employers etc.

GhostRider


Coppers already have access to your phone.

Don't forget that little gem called RIPA Part 3, whereby you are compelled under threat of jail to give the coppers any encryption keys you have and a plaintext version, even if you would be bearing witness against yourself. Thank you Labour, thank you Satan.

RIPA regulates the manner in which certain public bodies may conduct surveillance and access a person's electronic communications. The Act:
-> Enables certain public bodies to demand that an ISP provide access to a customer's communications in secret;
-> Enables mass surveillance of communications in transit;
-> Enables certain public bodies to demand ISPs fit equipment to facilitate surveillance;
-> Enables certain public bodies to demand that someone hand over keys to protected information;
-> Allows certain public bodies to monitor people's Internet activities;
-> Prevents the existence of interception warrants and any data collected with them from being revealed in court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Powers_Act_2000

Anyone who objects is a Fraudster/Paedo/Terrorist.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostRider wrote:
So why does it need unrestricted access without confirmation? I mean, surely when I'm sending a picture message, then sure, it requires the access then, for a few seconds, why does it get no holds barred access the remainder of the time?

GhostRider


Because that's how the APIs for phones work:

https://developer.android.com/reference/android/hardware/Camera.html

Pretty much the same for iPhone.

App developer requests permission, user grants it and then they can use that part of the api. Just think if every time you used the camera you clicked the shutter button, then had to confirm access. Works for all the peripherals...

The permissions FB requests are no different to absolutely every app that uses the APIs.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
I'd imagine it doesn't even matter if text messages/photos have been deleted on the phone - since these reside on the storage device until over-written no doubt these would be retrieved as well.


All the more reason to use a hidden volume for deniable encryption. Put in password A and it decrypts to show the naughty stuff, put in password B and it decrypts to show the dummy account with your financial info, tax accounts etc etc ie stuff that you would legitimately want to encrypt.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 30 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Facebook's new messaging app - shocking terms of service Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Quote:
Daily Mail style bullshit


I am a Daily Mail reader who is scared and worried about things that other daily mail readers say, I also believe every fucking bit of bullshit that is thrown about by uneducated people who haven't bothered their arse to do a little bit of research about a subject they know sweet fuck all about.

I AM SCARED


EFA.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:

All the more reason to use a hidden volume for deniable encryption. Put in password A and it decrypts to show the naughty stuff, put in password B and it decrypts to show the dummy account with your financial info, tax accounts etc etc ie stuff that you would legitimately want to encrypt.


Very true, but you also need a good password, with random characters, numbers and symbols, containing nothing from the dictionary. The only downside with a hidden volume is that you will have your hard drive in two partitions, and the second one will be completely random blank space which is rather strange. If they went to the courts and showed the online docs for something like Truecrypt and said hidden volumes fit the same pattern [Truecrypt/OS in partition 1/random data in partition 2] they might be able to get a conviction, even though the idea of hidden volumes was to deal with laws like RIPA.

https://www.inetsolution.com/turnleft/image.axd?picture=password-cracking-table_thumb.png
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Shit, maybe I did get drawn in a bit by this one.

Just let me put this back on...

https://lonelyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Facebook's new messaging app - shocking terms of service Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

Quote:
Daily Mail style bullshit


I am a Daily Mail reader who is scared and worried about things that other daily mail readers say, I also believe every fucking bit of bullshit that is thrown about by uneducated people who haven't bothered their arse to do a little bit of research about a subject they know sweet fuck all about.

I AM SCARED


EFA.


https://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/don-draper-slow-clap.gif
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Laughing Shit, maybe I did get drawn in a bit by this one.

Just let me put this back on...

https://lonelyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg


https://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2a97051b6ee7.jpg
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ed530d6ca7.jpg
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/554/537/464/464537554_221.jpg
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.imgur.com/ZBQ1YMq.png
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
https://i.imgur.com/ZBQ1YMq.png

Shiny.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 31 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://thewalkup.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tin-foil-home-thumb-450x298.jpg
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 01 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


This chart is wrong, do not be lulled into a false sense of security..


https://arstechnica.com/security/2012/08/passwords-under-assault/

https://arstechnica.com/security/2013/05/how-crackers-make-minced-meat-out-of-your-passwords/
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 01 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:


The chart is correct. Your links describe the weaknesses of choosing a password that is not pseudo-random because it is in a dictionary or is a close relation of something in a dictionary. Your hashing links wont work against this kind of password

_4G#gb1{y|VXAV{}7p=z&SeZ14$0]@Ci5]LfYQk|.9aH`K1fzrbKRZ.)rD8N{F2
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 02 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
https://www.inetsolution.com/turnleft/image.axd?picture=password-cracking-table_thumb.png


I really wish I'd had this two weeks ago when I was trying to explain to my missus why I changed her wifi password from the standard 8 digit pass that's impossible to remember (although, 10 days to crack is long enough to put off anybody interested in domestic wifi), to a short sentence that's 20 characters long. It might all be lower case but I don't think it's at any risk!

...However this doesn't give me much confidence in PIN codes.

On topic:

If you already have Facebook on your phone, have you not already agreed to these terms and conditions? Until last week the messages were part of the main app, so it must require all these permissions too.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 02 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting new development. Truecrypt development has been stopped and the project axed. Potential causes:
1. Something is going to came up in the audit which caused them to ditch the project
2. Internal developer infighting, they CBA to do it anymore
3. The NSA issued them a notice to backdoor the software and they would rather axe the project than do so

They say it is because XP has EOL'd but that makes little sense as TC provides a very different feature set to Bitlocker, not least that Bitlocker is only available for enterprise. They also give instructions to use Mac encryption with the encryption setting set to "none" which is obviously ridiculous.

If you want to use Truecrypt you need a copy of 7.1 or 7.1a, NOT 7.2. Alternatively, freeOTFE does a similar thing.

dydey90 wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
https://www.inetsolution.com/turnleft/image.axd?picture=password-cracking-table_thumb.png


I really wish I'd had this two weeks ago when I was trying to explain to my missus why I changed her wifi password from the standard 8 digit pass that's impossible to remember (although, 10 days to crack is long enough to put off anybody interested in domestic wifi), to a short sentence that's 20 characters long. It might all be lower case but I don't think it's at any risk!

...However this doesn't give me much confidence in PIN codes.

On topic:

If you already have Facebook on your phone, have you not already agreed to these terms and conditions? Until last week the messages were part of the main app, so it must require all these permissions too.


A sentence is potentially very weak as a password, even compared to an 8 character password, especially if it is all lower case. The chart does not apply to sentences, it applies to strings of pseuorandom characters. Once you have whole words in a password, or close relatives of whole words such as "b1ke" or "f0rvm5" then dictionary attacks can be used to dramatically reduce the search space. Any logical relations between characters can also be used to reduce the search space.

This is a pseudorandom string
JFxh_0d-
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 07:45 - 03 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/password_strength.png
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 03 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/password_strength.png


I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove with that graphic since it contradicts you. Your 4 password sentence from that image gives you a claimed 2^44 entropy, but that is still substantially weaker than a 7 character pseudorandom string using the 96 character set.

correcthorsebatterystaple is weaker than 9#0U)l8
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