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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Electric wizards Reply with quote
My clutch diode has gone, meaning my neutral light is stuck on.
Replacements are about £20....

Anyone know why I cant just use one of these?
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-schottky-diodes/7084443/

Original wiring is in attachment

Last edited by gavcarter on 20:28 - 08 Jun 2014; edited 1 time in total
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I put the part number into ebay. VS-40L15CTPBF

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/271177907788?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

muppet.
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
I put the part number into ebay. VS-40L15CTPBF

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/271177907788?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

muppet.


yyeeeaaaa..........
you found the same part for £4 more than I found and totally missed the question!

What I want to know is can i used that £2.50 common cathode diode instead of the "honda" one that is about £15 more expensive.

The diode is part of the neutral switch circuit - mine is broken and letting current pass both ways.

here is replacement from Honda https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/hpart_31700196000/

BUT this 20A one is £2 odd, will it work?
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-schottky-diodes/7084443/
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:
yyeeeaaaa..........
you found the same part for £4 more than I found and totally missed the question!


Shit question is shit, and you should feel shit about asking such a shit question.

Very Happy

The cheapo one may have lower quality standards than the honda ones.

May have different tolerances too.
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
gavcarter wrote:
yyeeeaaaa..........
you found the same part for £4 more than I found and totally missed the question!


Shit question is shit, and you should feel shit about asking such a shit question.

Very Happy

The cheapo one may have lower quality standards than the honda ones.

May have different tolerances too.


Bike is shit too if that helps Laughing
Probably do, I was just hoping not - save some ££ for something better than a stupid clutch diode.........
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would imagine it would be cheaper to remove the neutral indicator lamp.
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
moonzoomer wrote:
I would imagine it would be cheaper to remove the neutral indicator lamp.


Wont pass MOT without Mad
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bamt
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
There shouldn’t be anything magic about the Honda one. I'd go for something a bit more meaty on the reverse voltage though; 15V isn't much overhead.

Something like https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-schottky-diodes/5431061/ perhaps?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, it should work just fine. Thumbs Up

I'd be inclined to just put a couple of decent rectifier diodes together though.
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Yes, it should work just fine. Thumbs Up

I'd be inclined to just put a couple of decent rectifier diodes together though.

2 or 3 in parallel so they share the reverse current?

only has to last until MOT, or until i can find on evilbay - despise paying £20 for a 10pence component wrapped in plastic.....
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
bamt wrote:
There shouldn’t be anything magic about the Honda one. I'd go for something a bit more meaty on the reverse voltage though; 15V isn't much overhead.

Something like https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-schottky-diodes/5431061/ perhaps?


book marked for payday, cheers Thumbs Up Karma
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:
moonzoomer wrote:
I would imagine it would be cheaper to remove the neutral indicator lamp.


Wont pass MOT without Mad
Not tested in the UK mot
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:
Islander wrote:
Yes, it should work just fine. Thumbs Up

I'd be inclined to just put a couple of decent rectifier diodes together though.

2 or 3 in parallel so they share the reverse current?

only has to last until MOT, or until i can find on evilbay - despise paying £20 for a 10pence component wrapped in plastic.....


2 x 1N4004 diodes @ 10 pence each will do the job
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
moonzoomer wrote:
Not tested in the UK mot


I thought dummy lights were a must?
If not then FOR FUCK SAKE!!! Ive just spend pretty much the day making a mount that takes both clocks, the ignition and putting and wiring dummie lights into it for left + right indicator, High beam and neutral ........
This is how I found clutch diode had gone, no amount of gear shifting would find me the two wires that cut power when in gear....
Turned out thats because the diode is gone and is allowing a constant ground...
moonzoomer wrote:

2 x 1N4004 diodes @ 10 pence each will do the job


Should do looking at specs, will have to double check wiring diagram as the lamp shares earth with clocks, fuel sender, and a couple other things if memory serves right - Diodes might see above 1A...
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:
Islander wrote:
Yes, it should work just fine. Thumbs Up

I'd be inclined to just put a couple of decent rectifier diodes together though.

2 or 3 in parallel so they share the reverse current?

only has to last until MOT, or until i can find on evilbay - despise paying £20 for a 10pence component wrapped in plastic.....


It's the forward current that matters and it should be very small.
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:


It's the forward current that matters and it should be very small.


I thought forward current is the voltage drop - which yes should be small or bulb will be dim...

Reverse current is how much current it can stop flowing the wrong way? So if reverse too low diode will break down and I will have my neutral switch back on all the time again?

Or that was my understanding of them...
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:
moonzoomer wrote:
Not tested in the UK mot


I thought dummy lights were a must?
If not then FOR FUCK SAKE!!! Ive just spend pretty much the day making a mount that takes both clocks, the ignition and putting and wiring dummie lights into it for left + right indicator, High beam and neutral ........
This is how I found clutch diode had gone, no amount of gear shifting would find me the two wires that cut power when in gear....
Turned out thats because the diode is gone and is allowing a constant ground...
moonzoomer wrote:

2 x 1N4004 diodes @ 10 pence each will do the job


Should do looking at specs, will have to double check wiring diagram as the lamp shares earth with clocks, fuel sender, and a couple other things if memory serves right - Diodes might see above 1A...
1N4004 diodes operate at 400 volts and 4 amps so not a problem, every considered replacing the neutral lamp with an LED, something to think about perhaps, who knows?
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
moonzoomer wrote:
1N4004 diodes operate at 400 volts and 4 amps so not a problem, every considered replacing the neutral lamp with an LED, something to think about perhaps, who knows?


Already done, it is a single 12v led.
I was just thinking about the reverse current as the bike seems to have common grounds all over the place, the bulb is on the same ground as the other warning lights, the rev counter, fuel gauge, temp gauge, basically all the instruments....
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:
moonzoomer wrote:
1N4004 diodes operate at 400 volts and 4 amps so not a problem, every considered replacing the neutral lamp with an LED, something to think about perhaps, who knows?


Already done, it is a single 12v led.
I was just thinking about the reverse current as the bike seems to have common grounds all over the place, the bulb is on the same ground as the other warning lights, the rev counter, fuel gauge, temp gauge, basically all the instruments....
You have only got half wave hence the problem
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
moonzoomer wrote:
You have only got half wave hence the problem


Now you've lost me.....
neutral light is always on...
Tracked down the original wires to neutral bulb - replaced with LED as original clocks are gone.

Thought i'd made a mistake as led would not go off when in gear.
Spent ages double checking this.

Found diode is faulty and lets current through both ways on one side, if diode worked I assumed the light would go off when in neutral...
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G
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Even if it has to be working (which I don't think it does) - a bit of gaffa tape over it will solve it - plenty of bikes don't have them.
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
maybe this helps?
I believe the side that's broken is the side the side stand switch connects to, so the neutral light is finding earth through there instead of waiting for the gear selector switch to ground

https://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss182/hmmmnz1/Honda/cbr125r.jpg

Last edited by gavcarter on 21:57 - 08 Jun 2014; edited 1 time in total
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
Even if it has to be working (which I don't think it does) - a bit of gaffa tape over it will solve it - plenty of bikes don't have them.


Appreciate that G - but ive faffed about installing one as i though i needed it so I feel it should work.
Plus it will help our lass out when she gets on it - the quicker she gets a cbt - the quicker I get full test Wink
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
gavcarter wrote:


I thought forward current is the voltage drop - which yes should be small or bulb will be dim...

Reverse current is how much current it can stop flowing the wrong way? So if reverse too low diode will break down and I will have my neutral switch back on all the time again?

Or that was my understanding of them...


Forward current isn't the voltage drop - it's the current carried by the diode when it's forward biased and that's dictated by the circuit resistance. Forward voltage drop across the diode will be around 0.6v for a standard silicon junction.

With reverse bias it's the voltage that matters - the diode isn't conducting after all so all you need to do is ensure the reverse voltage rating is greater than the maximum produced by the bike.

A 1N4004 diode has a maximum reverse voltage of 400v and a maximum forward current of 1A, a 1N4001 has a maximum reverse voltage of 50v and a maximum forward current of 1A. Either will do the job. Thumbs Up

As an example, I recently modified my OH's M750. The standard setup meant that even in neutral you couldn't run the engine with the sidestand down, A single 1N4001 diode between the neutral light and the sidestand switch soon sorted that out.

Last edited by Islander on 22:28 - 08 Jun 2014; edited 1 time in total
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gavcarter
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 08 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
thanks all, will get it sorted soon Karma Karma
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