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186mph Restrictors

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Az
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: 186mph Restrictors Reply with quote

I've recently been told that all bikes in the UK that are capable of more than 186mph, are restricted to 186mph.

Why 186mph? Crashing at 200mph+ or 186mph is going to be deadly regardless.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

iirc it's an agreement between manufacturers to stop them competing over speed and it getting out of control.

It's a 300kph agreement, which works out around 186mph
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.Bishbash.
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, exactly as Phil says, I think no bike can hit 300km/h standard that is. Fiddle with the bike and the story will be different.
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Az
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh okay, so the 186mph/300kph restriction is not a legal requirement or specific to the UK?
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.Bishbash.
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, it's in Europe and US for sure. It's a manufacturer thing Wink

Take a peek at Ghost riders vids for instance, he never hits 300km/h EVER Thumbs Up
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UrbanRacer
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bishbash II wrote:
Nope, it's in Europe and US for sure. It's a manufacturer thing Wink

Take a peek at Ghost riders vids for instance, he never hits 300km/h EVER Thumbs Up


The speedo doesn't read above 299kmh but that doesn't mean the bike isn't going any faster. If you watch the rev counter it will still be climbing after it hits 299
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Timmeh
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much the same thing happened with the Jap 400 supersports in that all they produce pretty much the same power. Out of the factory, anyway.
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Wull
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're easily bypassed anyway.

On my gixer thou there was a restriction in 1st 2nd and 6th gear(186mph) but with the atre fitted it removed all of these allowing me to get over 186 even though the clocks stopped at this point.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Commonly bypassed with a speedo healer.

All the best

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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 10 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup was manufacturers policing themselves with a gentleman's agreement, before the EU stuck their dicks into the business and created a mandatory power limit, or speed limiter.


Rich people with their £100k+ can have their 200mph+ cars... but they don't want people on a £10k bike doing the same speeds.
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 00:54 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben-B wrote:
Yup was manufacturers policing themselves with a gentleman's agreement, before the EU stuck their dicks into the business and created a mandatory power limit, or speed limiter.


Rich people with their £100k+ can have their 200mph+ cars... but they don't want people on a £10k bike doing the same speeds.


Sounds like a clear cut case of discrimination, if you ask me. Folded arms

I wonder what the European Court of human rights would have to say on the matter. Thinking

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Cadbury
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mirroring what everyone else is saying -started with the Hayabusa surpassing the blackbirds top speed by quite a bit, they came up with a Gentleman's agreement to stop regulations banning high speed motorcycles. Although, according to that list, the MV Agusta F4 R 312 is capable of 194mph, so maybe things are on the change.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CadillacMoon wrote:
Mirroring what everyone else is saying -started with the Hayabusa surpassing the blackbirds top speed by quite a bit, they came up with a Gentleman's agreement to stop regulations banning high speed motorcycles. Although, according to that list, the MV Agusta F4 R 312 is capable of 194mph, so maybe things are on the change.


The, 299kph actually, agreement is only between Japanese producers. Thumbs Up

That's why there are faster bikes than that.

It is the same thing as the Germans agreement on 250kph for cars. Thumbs Up
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
CadillacMoon wrote:
Mirroring what everyone else is saying -started with the Hayabusa surpassing the blackbirds top speed by quite a bit, they came up with a Gentleman's agreement to stop regulations banning high speed motorcycles. Although, according to that list, the MV Agusta F4 R 312 is capable of 194mph, so maybe things are on the change.


The, 299kph actually, agreement is only between Japanese producers. Thumbs Up

That's why there are faster bikes than that.

It is the same thing as the Germans agreement on 250kph for cars.
Thumbs Up


Which they're more than happy to remove if you pay them Laughing


TBH there is just no need for faster cars or bikes on the road. The unrestricted autobahn is the only place in Europe you can legally go that speed, and its often busy with things like a 1.6 family hatchback overtaking a lorry, so you get up to 130-140 mph then have to slam on the brakes as the car in front is doing 40mph less.

I've driven at 140 before and you get incredible tunnel vision, the slightest things break your concentration. No radio, no open window, no talking girlfriend.
If 100 feels like 20mph more than 80, then 120 feels like 30mph more than 100, and 140 feels like 40 more than 120. It starts to feel exponential.

Unless the bahn was completely empty, I can't imagine I'd ever go above 155 in a car or 160 on a bike.


Liking the JDM Nissan GTRs function of restricting you to 180kph as per the Japanese limit, but recognising via GPS when you're at a track and removing the limiter. Perhaps that will be more common place in the future, limiting cars to say 30-40% above the national speed limit, unless on an unrestricted road or track.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically most of the Isle of Man has no speed limit either, and clearly it is possible to hit 200 on a motorcycle there if you are mad enough to try.
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Technically most of the Isle of Man has no speed limit either, and clearly it is possible to hit 200 on a motorcycle there if you are mad enough to try.


Ah yes true, I forget about IoM.

I think unless the roads are empty though you'd be mad to try, especially as you have oncoming traffic that isn't separated from you in any way.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even without the rev limiter few bikes have the power to pull 200mph on the flat and level. For those that do, the easiest way to defeat the restriction is change the front sprocket. your clocks won't read any higher but the road speed will be there.
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G
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben-B wrote:

Rich people with their £100k+ can have their 200mph+ cars... but they don't want people on a £10k bike doing the same speeds.

A lot of cars are restricted to 155mph (250kph).

The idea for the bikes wasn't for the safety of riders riding these bikes so much as to stop an 'arms race' with higher and higher top speeds being chased - with the worry that it could see bikes being forced to be restricted at a much lower point.

And yes - when the average person can buy a vehicle that can go as fast as a £200k car for the price of a Fiesta, it's not surprising there's the possibility for 'concern'.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben-B wrote:
Yup was manufacturers policing themselves with a gentleman's agreement, before the EU stuck their dicks into the business and created a mandatory power limit, or speed limiter.


Rich people with their £100k+ can have their 200mph+ cars... but they don't want people on a £10k bike doing the same speeds.


There's an agreement in the car industry too - 250kph for all but the halo cars and supercar manufacturers...

The self regulation is nothing against consumers, it's to stop the press bleating on about the new most dangerous bike in the world and how these 'killer machines' should be banned.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
A lot of cars are restricted to 155mph (250kph).

The idea for the bikes wasn't for the safety of riders riding these bikes so much as to stop an 'arms race' with higher and higher top speeds being chased - with the worry that it could see bikes being forced to be restricted at a much lower point.

And yes - when the average person can buy a vehicle that can go as fast as a £200k car for the price of a Fiesta, it's not surprising there's the possibility for 'concern'.


Ah... Read to the bottom before making a post just in case someone's made exactly the same points Doh!
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 11 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben-B wrote:
Unless the bahn was completely empty, I can't imagine I'd ever go above 155 in a car or 160 on a bike.


I live not 10mins drive from a section of unrestricted autobahn. I've not yet hit the limiter due to the other traffic being everywhere. The problem isn't so much the tunnel vision or the outright speed, it's when you're doing 200km/h and someone pulls out doing ~100 you have a hell of a lot of slowing down to do.

You can't trust that someone isn't going to pull out. It takes a lot further to go from 200 to 100km/h than 100 to 0... https://www.abs-bv.nl/en/home/467-double-the-speed-four-times-the-braking-distance

So... Completely agree... 155mph is a rather huge speed when there's another vehicle on the road. For 200mph+ I'd be looking for a stretch with nothing for a good few miles. Unfortunately that never happens on my weekend trips to ikea... And the missus complains when I go over 180km/h...
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 06:59 - 12 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done 130-140mph (satnav) on Autobahn on a few ocassions and I must say German people suprisingly behave there because there was not one car that was overtaking me (even Porsches, Ferearis etc.) I felt a bit like a knob haha.

Going anything above 150mph on Autobahn for a long period of time is a madness especially on a bike... too many grannies in their Puntos and Ticos driving erratically. On 4 wheels slamming your brakes or even hitting something have less severe consequences.

I've seen a result of crash on Autobahn.. I'm not sure what happened, only one car involved - either driver fell asleep, or lost control, burst tyre etc. The pieces of the car could be found all over the road oa a one mile stretch Thumbs Down

I experienced emergency braking from 140 to 0 too... Almost shat myself.
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Last edited by Musketeer on 09:09 - 12 Jun 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Dibble
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PostPosted: 07:29 - 12 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the reasons is Tyres, legally your tyres have to be rated to the maximum speed of the vehicle.

If you look at the tyres for the first unrestricted Hyabusa the cost far more than those rated for up to 186mph.

Tyre manufacturers (I used to work for one) are nervous about high speed failures and also frequently moan about having to go to the trouble of producing a fuel efficient, grippy, long life, attractive tyre that also is rated to high speeds and works in the wet when the speed limit is 70mph...... They don't want loads of bikers doing 200mph. "The Tyre Designers Challenge"

I personally wouldn't be worried about doing 187mph on a tyre rated to 186 as the rating covers running at maximum weight in high temperatures for a long while.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 07:59 - 12 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dibble wrote:
One of the reasons is Tyres, legally your tyres have to be rated to the maximum speed of the vehicle.

If you look at the tyres for the first unrestricted Hyabusa the cost far more than those rated for up to 186mph.

Tyre manufacturers (I used to work for one) are nervous about high speed failures and also frequently moan about having to go to the trouble of producing a fuel efficient, grippy, long life, attractive tyre that also is rated to high speeds and works in the wet when the speed limit is 70mph...... They don't want loads of bikers doing 200mph. "The Tyre Designers Challenge"

I personally wouldn't be worried about doing 187mph on a tyre rated to 186 as the rating covers running at maximum weight in high temperatures for a long while.


Also, the high speed tires have less rubber/life time on them to make them more balanced. Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 12 Jun 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Dibble wrote:
One of the reasons is Tyres, legally your tyres have to be rated to the maximum speed of the vehicle.

If you look at the tyres for the first unrestricted Hyabusa the cost far more than those rated for up to 186mph.

Tyre manufacturers (I used to work for one) are nervous about high speed failures and also frequently moan about having to go to the trouble of producing a fuel efficient, grippy, long life, attractive tyre that also is rated to high speeds and works in the wet when the speed limit is 70mph...... They don't want loads of bikers doing 200mph. "The Tyre Designers Challenge"

I personally wouldn't be worried about doing 187mph on a tyre rated to 186 as the rating covers running at maximum weight in high temperatures for a long while.


Also, the high speed tires have less rubber/life time on them to make them more balanced. Thumbs Up


The tyre life on the original rubber was terrible. I killed my rear in under 1500 miles which included a very restrained 1000 miles of running in Shocked Laughing
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