RTC - Legal Advice (long)

[G0FHM]

Guys I need some advice here.

A while back, "Motorcycle Monthly" featured in their Q&A from the chap at White Dalton, the plight of a chap who ended up losing his bike on oil that was deposited on the road.

The same thing happened to my missus earlier this evening, whilst turning right at a T junction, and down she went. Luckily it was a no more than a "lazy lay down", with a smashed right front indicator, the exhaust can bent back to the swingarm (bracket, not can itself) and severely dented pride. Less damage than the excess on her policy, but factor in new indicator, a new exhaust hanger/footpeg bracket (I know it will snap the moment I try and straighten it) and a new battery (the acid leaked out) plus the cost of recovery, it's still going to be a bit on the expensive side - Oh, factor in a new lid, too, as that has a slight scuff where the side of her head made contact with the road.

Basically, this junction had semi fresh oil over it, and I was in front of her and had a twitch and right foot down moment on taking off, so it wasn't her riding ability.

Now, Mr. Prendergast stated that the aggrieved rider could pursue a claim against the MIB, as the oil was deposited there by a vehicle (albeit unknown) that would normally be insured under the Road Traffic Act. Has anybody got a copy of MCM still around so that they can clarify this? I thnink it may have been last month's edition even.

I've spoken to her insurance company, and put this to them and they are basically saying that without the details of the vehicle that deposited the oil there and the time (so they could prove they hadn't made an effort to clear it up in a reasonable time frame), it was a waste of time, and ultimately a public liability insurance matter as opposed to motor insurance.

2 different stories from 2 different people!

If Mr. Prendergast is correct, then it's going to have to be reported to the Police as there was injury involved, and although her injuries are only aches, pains and bruises, it's going to mean a trip to A&E - Both are a major inconvenience, as it will be Friday night in A&E, and the nearest open plod station is circa 20 miles away.

I'm not quite sure what to do here! There is a possibility she may have been tapped from behind also, as coming along the road (it was rural and twisty) she had a Citroen Picasso right up her chuff, which was unsettling her already. I saw her go down in my mirrors when going up the road, and by the time I got turned round and back to her (approx 400 yards), missus in the citroen had checked she was alright, and had buggered off before I even got the side stand down, let alone got my lid flipped up.

Other half can't really remember too much as to what happened, as she was busy trying to a, keep the bike upright, and b, putting herself between the bike and the road!

I have an expert witness in the form of a retired police inspector/bike instructor (who recovered the bike with his van) who agreed that the road surface was unsatisfactory.

She may not have been tapped, but the speed in which the driver fled, seems a little suspicious to me!

Any advice appreciated!

J
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1996 Triumph Sprint 900, 1981 GS-650 Katana, 2008 Sukida SK-125 Pharoah.
Twitter @triplemeister

[Rogerborg]

Untraced driver claim. You don't ask, you don't get.

£300 excess, sadly.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[MattEMulsion]

Well did she slip on oil or was she knocked off by the mystery Citroen? You need to get your story straight if you are going to try to claim off someone because at the minute you sound like you are clutching at straws in order to apportion blame.

Personally I think that you are unlikely to be successful claiming off anyone other than your own insurance will could be more hassle than it is worth for minor bits of damage. If it was me I think that I would repair the broken bits and chalk it up to experience.
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Yamaha YZF-R6

[iooi]

No idea which way you could go.

BUT hope that you have already reported the road surface issue to the local council so it is sorted out....
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[Minty]

May I ask why you didn't stop after your 'twitchy moment' to warn your wife?

+1 for clutching at straws.
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My fingers smell of your mum.

[MattEMulsion]

Where does the recovery cost come into the equation? Did the guy charge you for the use of his van???
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Yamaha YZF-R6

[Rogerborg]

[c_dug]

MIB claim is easy enough to sort for yourself, I'm going through one at the moment. Keep the insurer out of it, they'll only skim off the top.

For the sake of a claim I suggest you get the story straight. I can't comment on spilled oil, but an untraced drivers claim is fairly straight forward. No claiming for the bike damages though with an untraced driver, injury only.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[G0FHM]

Yep, the recovery cost will be invoiced. The chap runs a motorcycle training school, and therefore has the specialist vehicle to do the job (he transports bikes around as part of his business, so will have to pay the going rate). Possibly will be cheaper than calling a proper recovery company out, but it's an expense all the same The AA didn't want to know.

And I would have stopped to warn her, but she was a good 100 yards behind me, and by the time I had turned right and gone back again, the bike was already on the floor. You must know that you can't just pull a U turn anywhere you like... Bikers are soft and squashy!

Well, the driver of the Citroen was just driving off as I pulled back up. It would appear, after the dust had settled and things had calmed down, that she got out of the car, asked if she was alright, and then said "I'm just going to move my car out of the way as it's in the road" and promptly buggered off, leaving her in the middle of the junction trying to hold up 240 odd kilos of Triumph, with a knackered leg and wrist, trying to shift it out of the way of a junction. If i'd have known that at the time, I would have followed her and gotten her details, but my first priority was to get the bike to the side of the road, and check for injury before chasing anyone down.

From what I understand, this Citroen driver had been driving badly for the few miles prior, driving far too close, positioning herself as if to overtake but not, etc and at a staggered crossroads (left then immediate right) she tried to cut straight across alongside Clair, and if she hadn't done the obligatory lifesaver she would have had her in the side there. This continued on the next bit of road, and I noticed that, as normally she stays a fair way behind, and I struggle to see her in the mirrors, so she had been pushed along a bit. It's easy to say pull over and let her pass, But on these particular roads (Cambridgeshire fens) there aren't a lot of places to safely pull off, and there are plenty of bends to make overtaking impractical. So what do you do? The highway code says to slow down and increase the distance between you and the vehicle in front if somebody is following too close - But there were no vehicles in front, and this driver was so close that most of the time she was barely visible in her mirrors. Would you want to brake with that up your chuff?

Looking back at the photos I took of the scene, Going by the pool of battery acid on the road, and the juice that had leaked from the tank, she was about a foot to the left of the centreline of the road, with her front wheel either on or a fraction over the line. Where her wheels were, would have been clear of any crap on the junction (she is sensible enough to avoid stuff like diesel and oil on the roads), most of it being on the right turn out of the junction, across the road. Apprently, she had just started to creep forward on the clutch, and suddenly the bike just went from under her. With the wheels where they were, if she had given too much gas or yanked the clutch, she would have been straight in the field opposite the junction, or the back end would have come unstuck as she was leaned over whilst turning right. Apparently this Shitroen was again in her blind spot at the the junction (to the left).

My money is on the driver trying to force her way up the inside of her, and clipping the left hand can as she began to move off, thus leading to the bike "just going from under me". Going by the manner of her driving in the preceding few miles, that's a distinct possibility.

Why did she tell a lie about "just going to move the car" and bugger off? To quote Nicholas Angel in Hot Fuzz - Innocent people don't run!

Reported to the polis - They aren't really interested without a reg no of the vehicle, and didn't even do any paperwork, apart from put a log on the computer stating that at such and such a time, such and such happened, and that's that.

Looks like it's a case of taking it on the chin and getting over it. It's cost a new helmet, and a new front indicator. I'm hopeful I can sort the exhaust out, looks like the tab on the can that bolts it to the hanger is bent a bit. The can took it very well, not dented or bent, just a few scratches. I doubt it is the hanger that is bent, as they are made of die cast, and are brittle as hell, so it will have snapped if anything (I had one go on mine a couple of years back it just snapped when riding).

Bugger....

J
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1996 Triumph Sprint 900, 1981 GS-650 Katana, 2008 Sukida SK-125 Pharoah.
Twitter @triplemeister

[Wonko The Sane]

[G0FHM]

Hi Daffyd,

It does sound similar. She wouldn't have been on the brake though, as she was creeping, ready to take the turn.

I think she just brushed the can (quite wide on a Sprint) enough to unsettle the bike, and the laws of gravity took over.

She remembers it happening in slow motion, and letting a "Noooooo" go as it was going over, and doing her utmost to stop the bike hitting the deck any harder than it needed to!

The weird thing is, her left leg came off worse than the right, and she didn't have a lump of metal land on that. It's too high for the footpeg (just under her knee), so i'm thinking it was probably the end of the fairing (when I have knee pads in, they brush on the pointy end of the fairing.

But, she went and bought a new lid this afternoon and is now cursing as the indicator won't be here till next week and she wants to ride tomorrow.....

Can't keep a good girl down - She's fallen off enough horses over the years and jumped straight back on, so a bike is no different to her. I've never had an off (yet), but as and when I do, I'll be a little more hesitant about getting back on

J
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1996 Triumph Sprint 900, 1981 GS-650 Katana, 2008 Sukida SK-125 Pharoah.
Twitter @triplemeister

[anthony_r6]

So you've gone from oil to the car being the cause?

You even said yourself that there was fresh oil in the road, so is it just unlucky that there was oil right there AND a bad driver tapping her?

Also, maybe the lady in the car went to pull up, but realised you were with her, and decided she wasn't needed at the scene of your accident (which presumably didn't involve her).
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[c_dug]

Source?

Not what the website says I'm sure iirc, changes a lot for my claim so very interested.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Rogerborg]