Looking to start biking, could do with help!

[Snoopy--x]

Hi, I've just taken a new Job which is a slightly longer commute than my previous job. Having my own mode of transport would make life so much easier as it's long hours (12:00 - 00:00)
At the moment I'm legging it to catch the last train at 00:02 and then walking 4 miles to get home!

I'm 25 (Just) and I've got zero experience on the road! I had kids fairly early on (18) and between them and the house, just haven't had the funds to get on the road. Always been more interested in bikes > cars, so the plan is to finally get on the road! Get the Mrs a car next year so she can ferry the kiddies around whilst I just commute to work and back on a bike.

Now, what's the best way to do this?


One major problem I have is: Between the kiddies and the house, I'm still not minted lol! The new job is better pay but to buy one outright, even a cheap used bike, including licenses and gear, I'll be saving for quite some time!
Finance would be the quickest option, however getting finance on a "First" bike seems... Daft?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[FlightRisk]

[Snoopy--x]

[pinkyfloyd]

Where are you based. Profile says Hampshire. Depending how local you are, I might be able to sort you out. Failing that I'll be able to give ya some advice on what your options are.

Best advice would be go for DAS with a riding school. It'll cost around £700 all in, thats CBT, training, mod 1 and mod 2 plus theory (Which you book yourself). Once passed the mod 1 and 2 tests you'll be able to ride any bike you want.

Alternatively a CBT will cost around £110, valid for 2 years and you can ride anything up to a 125cc motorcycle on L plates.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Az]

Have you considered getting a bank loan rather than financing a bike?

A £2k bank loan should cover almost everything, excluding insurance.

Roughly…
Tests and lessons - £700
Gear - £200
Bike - £1000
Insurance deposit - £100*


Insurance can be paid monthly and I doubt it would be much more than £500 if your 25 on one of the more popular 1st big bikes; such as a Fazer, Hornet, SV650, Bandit etc'.

*If you pay your insurance monthly, I doubt the initial deposit will be more than £100.

[Snoopy--x]

[Snoopy--x]

[Teflon-Mike]

OK, I'm going to be brutal here. You want cheap way to work, right? You have kids and house, commitments; you need to get the maximum wheels for minimum money.

Base-Line; CAR.
Conventional, every-man transport. Shifts 4/5 folk + shopping/luggage; and modern infrastructure designed around the damn things.

Where I am, near Coventry, we have pretty cut-throat Driving Schools, with more instructors than students, crying out for business and falling over themselves to offer cut-price courses. Lessons typically cost around £25 per hour, but, they are offering ten one hour lesson courses, for £99, to keep the instructors working.

That ought to be enough to get a reasonably competant new driver, to test standard and through tests; umpety decades ago, I think I had twelve lessons, but two of those were 'cos they cancelled my test apointment due to bad weather, so I had to have a couple more to fill the gap till the new test date.

Putting a little lee-way on that, though, lets say more reasonable to assume £200 for car-driving lessons. Now add, £33 for your Car Theory/Hazard test, and £88, I think it is, for your practical test.

Lets say, £300 is 'all in' to get a car licence.

Then the car. Plenty around; every man and his dog own one these days, the market is saturated, and there are more cars around than folk who want them, so, again, round here, I can pop into any of perhaps three or four used car dealers within walking distance of my house, and choose a half reasonable 'older' car, for pretty sensible money. £1000 ought to get me something pretty tidy, and useful, but at a real push, Kosovan mechanic on the corner, usually has three or four 'trade ins' on the lot, with tax and test on them, for under £500..

And 'Banger-nomics'.. Buy 'cheap' and if they threaten to cost money, chuck-em away and buy another.

I have had my current car, just over five years now; mid 90's Honda civic. Goes to show how much attention I pay the thing; I dont know how old it is, let alone what the registration number is, and I have, finally checked the oil in it... 'cos the red warning light came on on the dash a few weeks ago! It's gone through four MOT's since I've had it, and in the entire time, it's needed two new tyres, a battery, set of front brake pads, and I think MOT man said he'd changed the tail lamp bulb a couple of times! It's cost me, less than £150 a year in 'maintenance'.

That car, I was basically given, when elderly relative stopped driving, and least loved car in the family, after some parking space shuffling, landed on my drive, where it will probably remain until it dies. But, it's not untypical of something you might snag on e-bay for under £500 of find in the trade-sale section of local used car dealers, for a few 100.

Yes, it uses petrol. At a rough estimate, maybe 35-40 to the gallon, I don't really pay it that much attention; and it's not THAT important; stick a car outside, and most folk will simply use it, so long as they have cash to stick fuel in it; so doesn't matter much how many MPG the books say they should use, first you will rarely get it, and second, more the car does, more 'extra' miles you'll tend to do.

Insurance? Well, will be what it will be; as a younger driver, ent going to be wonderful; having no no claims wont do you any favours, and being a newly qualified driver, wont help. Insurance sucks, but we all have to start somewhere. Going by what some of my kids have been quoted recently, on 'cheap' older car, I'd hazard you should budget something in the region of £7-800 for insurance on 'something', and of course you can get it on the never-never taking the monthly payment plan, to make it a little easier on the wallet.

SO, where are we at, and what's thr damage?
£300 Lessons & Tests
£500 For 'cheap' old car
£800 For insurance
£200 for annual 'maintenance'
+ Petrol
And for 12/16 mile each way daily commute, five days a week, fifty weeks a year? this is likely to be your biggest 'cost' of travel, and commuter miles, probably cost you around £1000 a year, add perhaps another £500 for social & domestic use, doing the shopping, visiting the in-laws and all the other shit that 'family life', or shall we say, putting up with mother of our children notionally less intolerable!

OK, then, so, for all up price of 'about' £3,500.. you get regulation, conventional, every-man, Mr 'Normal', four person plus baggage, general utility, makes the missus happy 'cos you can take her to Ikea, 'Do-It-All' Transport solution; with, perhaps two major upfront out-lays,of £300 for lessons and tests, and another £500 or so, for car. Call it £1000 'start up' if you add the first instalment on the insurance plan.

That's your base-line for comparison.

Lets look at bikes.

Irrespective of what sort of bike you go for, what licence you might elect to test for.. you will NEED....

Compulsory Basic Training course - approx £125.. this JUST validates your provisional licence entitlement so you can get on the road and start learning. You might do that on your own 125 on L-Plates, which you can ride ahead of tests unsupervised.. BUT its a given, whatever you do you will need CBT.

Next; you are going to need minimum riding apparel, Crash helmet, water-proofs, 'some' sort of riding gear. You don't have to have 'dedicated' motorcycle specific riding wear, and even that need not be leathers; but, you will need to spend some money on gear, and ball-park, to put together a 'basic' riding kit, you are probably going to have to spend around £100-£200 on new gear, depending on how much you are prepared to improvise with stuff that may already be in your wardrobe, and how much you are prepared to compromise on style and features of kit in the shops.

You're going to buy a bike, at some point, too, so before you get it, and while you are looking at rider gear, lets stick some security devices on the shopping list! Bikes are pretty easy to steal, and have a habit of disappearing over night if all you rely in is them not having the key in the ignition to stop any-one having off with it! Lets stick another £50-£100 on the budget for a disc-lock and a reasonably useful pad-lock and chain, then a ground anchor if you have some-where to install it.

So far, we are up to £300 of upfront start up costs, and we haven't even got close to getting on the road yet... but, time to make choices.

CBT completed, you are an unqualified numpty with no more training than your first lesson, yet are legally permitted to get on a Learner-Legal 125cc motorcycle, and ride it unsupervised for up to two years, without taking any test... most dangerouse form of motorised transport, YET only one we let any-one use on their own before they prove their competence and get a licence! NOT the most 'safety conciouse' suggestion in the world that, really, is it? amazing they allow it, really, and TBH only reason they do, is due to a legacy of 'old' legislation from before there was really any other way for Learners to Learn.

Note the suggestion though; PLANNING to get a 125 and ride forever on L's never taking a test, is NOT the most sensible way to stay safe.

And, practically, you can only do it for two years anyway, when you have to renew your CBT validity, which means paying to do a course you have already done. That's £125 of wasted money, which, if you were a bit clued up could be better spent on taking A1 motorcycle tests, 'self booked'; and two years tottering around the roads on your own on L's without killing any-one, particularly yourself, pretty good chance you could pass tests without any lessons; as tests basically only want you to do what you have obviously been doing for however long, for twenty minutes or so; riding real roads without causing hazard.

So, if you have sense, you do CBT, and if you plan to go the 125 route, not stay forever on L's, but do A1 - 125 tests, 'cos its cheap', and you don't 'have' to take lessons, and once 'done' you have proved your competence, and got a licence, even though its essentially a 'once and forever' never to expire CBT in terms of what it will let you ride.

And 125's ARE the 'cheap' option in the bigger picture.

Main thing is they generally offer very frugal fuel consumption, of sufficiently significant magnitute as to make it look like they can almost 'pay for themselves' compared to a car... and 100+mpg figures are regularly bandied about.

Looking at a car, we guestimated your annual commuting fuel spend is likely to be about £1000 a year, from a car that possibly returns around 40mph or so. A bike that does 120mpg then is going to use 1/3 the fuel, and even one that only returns 80- or so is going to only use half, and THAT is likely to save around £500 a year or so...

That sounds like a fairly hefty saving... BUT, we have had to spend, more than half of that before we even begin, JUST to get basic riding gear, and security and validate provisional motorcycle entitlement... and we haven't actually got a bike yet!

Every dog and his dick has a car, as said, market is saturated, and you can get a useful one for around £500. There's barely one bike for every 40 cars on the road, or something like that, and half of them you cant ride on L-Plates. and because any-one can get a provisional licence and CBT and get one of these fantastically ecconomical machines... there's a lot more folk as want them as have them for sale. And realistically, you are likely to have to spend £700 or more JUST to get a 125cc bike that stands a chance of being worth owning.

Well, there's the other half of your first year's fuel saving just been wiped off the board before you begin.... hasn't it?

But, lets carry on. May be able to claw a little bit back on the insurance. What shall we budget for that? 25 years old, on L-Plates, no NCB? 7000 miles a year minimum mileage, including commuting on the policy? £3-400 ish? Insurance is law unto itself, and prices are volatile, but that's not an unreasonable ball-park to budget. And brings us back into the black, to the tune of perhaps £400 or so.

OK, so still looking do-able. What about maintenence? Well, motorcycles tend to need a lot more frequent maintenence than cars, and they have a lot more consumeables to replace. BUT, on a lightweight 125 commuter, they tend not to be too expensive.

Tyres are about £70 a pair and can last reasonably well; certainly a years commuter miles, maybe 2. Brake pads? Chain and sprockets? again, all reasonably cheap, and fairly long lasting, and realistically, how much you might have to spend on routine maintenance like that will depend on how well the bikes been looked after when you buy it'. Or probably more pertinantly, how neglected / abused the thing was by previouse owners!

125's tend to live hard lives; learner riders tend not to be the most clued up or sympathetic owners. They bikes tend to get thrashed and maintenence ignored until something breaks, when, as an 'ecconomy' motorcycle, being run 'on the cheap' they are loath to spend any money on the thing, if they can press it back into service with a well considered bodge.

Buying a typical 125 Learner legal, I would suggest you budget perhaps £200 over buy price, to de-niggle the thing after purchase, find faults, find neglect and drag the thing out of its likely state of 'maintenance over-draft'.

But, when your livelihood depends on your bike getting you to work, so you can pay the bills; its a case of not being able to NOT afford to maintain it; and it's reasonable to suggest you budget around £200 a year, for oil changes, tyres, chain and sprockets and other necessary 'preventative maintenance'.

And long term.. remember that 'kit', crash-hat, gloves, locks etc. That dont last forever. You will probably want to increase your riding kit as you go, and you will have to replace garments and equipment as they wear out..

So, final analysis of going the 125 route;

£300 for CBT and basic riding kit.
£700 minimum to buy a bike
£400 for insurance
£200 for maintenence
£500 for commuter petrol

Grand total, £2100.. with, £1000 of upfront start up costs.

That sort of suggests, that its actually NOT much different in terms of cold hard upfront cash you have to find, to get on the road, car or 125 motorcycle on L's.

And a 125cc motorcycle, CAN show significantly useful saving over a car... at least as far as getting to and from work.

BUT, only carries one person, and minimal luggage. It isn't a car, and doesn't have the added utility of a car.

Now; car costs more, and on commuter miles, around an extra £1500 just to get you too and from work.. BUT damn site more comfy in the winter, with a heater, and you are a lot less likely to fall off it in the snow.... small solace for the money... BUT....

That cars sat outside, taxed, insured, and available to use, and capable of carrying you, missus and kids, and luggage. Overheads paid for on the necessity of getting you to and drom work, any Social & Domestic miles you do, and rough guess, thats about half as many more as your commuter miles, they ONLY cost you the fuel and a little maintenence.

So now, you ghave a £4000 transport solution, which is twice the cost of a 125 motorcycle, BUT, 50% more miles, carrying extra passengers, you have a full 'family' solution, NOT merely a single person get to work solution.

Is THAT added work, worth twice as much?

And I'll give you a hint... only 1% of motor-vehicle miles are completed by motorcycles, and probably half of all motorcycle miles are not 'essential' commuter or family travel, but pure leisure miles, by motorcyclists riding just for fun... which sort of suggests, MOST people, and even most motorcyclists, think that the car's more 'useful'!

So, 125 is a solution, and it is a 'cheap' solution, but while it may only be half the cost, only half as useful, possibly NOT so wonderfully 'ecconomical' as you may presume.

Taking that then as reference, lets look at bigger bikes... this is NOT going to fare well for the bike!

We have the same set up costs. You will still need CBT, and you will still need riding gear and security devices.... you will still need to buy a bike, insure it, maintain it, and stick petrol in it. And it will STILL only do half the job a car might..... but ghow much more is it likely to cost?

Well, you are going to have to do a DAS course to get your licence... so add £700 or so straight away to the £1000 start up overheads of cold hard upfront cash.

Instantly its now almost twice as expensive as getting a car or a 125

Go looking for a bike? With a full licence you have a much better choice of machines, with much greater performance, but at £700 you are still in the 'Bargain Basement'.. you might get a slightly better bike, but 'better' is subjective, and it might be a little less abused and neglected, but no garantee it'll be MUCH better in that regard.

And maintenence? Tyres of bigger bikes are more expensive. Batteries more expensive. Brake pads, they foten have twice the number as well as being more expensive, and heavier, faster bike, often don't last as long. And fuel? That 80-100mpg potential that made a 125 so atractive, thats now down to maybe 50-60, not a lot better than a car. while insurance, as a new full licence holder, might not be as loaded as an unqualified L-Plater, bigger heavier, faster bike, likely to be at least as much if not more to insure.

There ARE a few, full-licence lightweights, 150-300cc commuters that might be a bit cheaper to insure as a full licence holder than a 125, and not have significantly higher running costs than a 125... but we're not going to claw back that £700 DAS course cost from it.

So, for your typical commuter miles; moving up from a 125 to something fairly 'sensible' like a 500cc commuter twin... costs are only ever going to be higher.

Your £2100 ' to get on the road, and ride for a year cost is likely to go up to around £3500 same as getting a car to road, with all the added utility value that offers... or you can look on it as you are paying an extra £1400 JUST to get onto a bike that's functionally no more useful than the 125, just so you have something you might go waste more money, NOT doing family chores, riding 'for fun'....

Buy anything much more than a 500 commuter twin, then the ecconomies start shortening even more, and you are spending even more money, and anything with four cyclinders or over 600cc is likely to start costing as much or more than the car.. to do to more useful work, and have less potential functionality...

I have a pretty 'tame' 750 street-bike. Four cylinders, it has about 70bhp, does about 125mph, and returns maybe 50mpg... tyres cost £200 a pair, as much as a full set on the Civic, and they last probably 1/5 the miles. Chain and sprocket set for it is £120. And it has to have the oil changed every 1500 miles. And as an old git, with ancient licence, and only riding limited miles, purely for leisure, I pay bog all on insurance; thing costs me £250 a year to have sat outside available to use, and £80 of that's the buddy tax disc! Its only £100 or so cheaper on overheads than the car; and mile for mile, the maintenance costs far outweigh any mpg saving, so costs more to run mile on mile.

So, the economics are only ever going to go more in favour of the car, the more 'exiting' a bike you look at beyond that.

And it STILL isn't a car, and it still isn't going to do the 'work' a car might, and be able to make missus happy, doing the shopping, visiting the in-laws, or taking the kids to the zoo!

In counter point, bike is likely to be pretty significant bone of contension; NOT doing anything 'directly' for her or 'the family', and you are likely to be accused of being 'selfish' or 'stoopid' wanting a motorbike, and putting yourself 'so' at risk of being killed or seriously hurt.... just to get to and from work and 'save a few quid'

And that contension is only ever likey to get even bigger, IF you are riding a bigger bike, that ISN'T delivering the savings suggested, worse still, you try using the bike for leisure miles... 'fucking off on that bludy suicide machine, leaving me here to deal with the shitty nappies and 'where's Daddy' tantrums' while you go galavanting, having FUN.... on-your-OWN!"

Which is to edge topic away from the pure economics... But, believe me, if there's a hidden agenda behind this idea, and what you REALLY want is a 'toy' masquerading as 'transport', and are trying to lever its acceptance on the back of projected 'cash saving'... you better fucking well be sure you can deliver that saving, NORe the saving is seen, more DIRECTLY benefits HER... or you are likely to NEVER hear the end of it, and every time you need a new battery or a bottle of oil, or a new pair of bike boots, it WILL be used against you... "You said this thing would save US money, but ALL I see is you buying more shit!"

Go back, look at the numbers for getting a car.... look at the pro's and cons of what you get for your money, not just getting to and from work, but, servicing the needs of the whole family... and think long and hard of the hard cash value, of that, in terms of the lack of cold icy stares and sarcastic comments you are likely to get, from that 'added functionality' SHE can see directly benefits HER, and isn't simply indulging YOU.

Like I said, 99.5% of the population seem to think its worth more than the 'savings' that might be found from a motorbike...
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[FriendlyEllis]

For a 12 miles commute a 125 would be fine.
I'd do this. You get v good mpg too.

Check out a Honda CBF125 on eBay. You get a good one for £1300. (I'm sure people will suggest other bikes too).

You might find you do it for 6 months and love it, then start thinking about DAS and a bigger bike, but you also might not like it.
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Honda CB600F Hornet 2013 -> Kawasaki Z1000SX ABS Tourer 2015

[MC]

Depends on the type of roads your going to be using. I'm guessing it's going to be national limit A roads? Personally I'd want something bigger than a 125, when your struggling to do 50 into a strong headwind it's not much fun, with the whole world and his wife overtaking you.

Didn't read all of Teffers post (I need to be at work in 3hrs ), but for me at least being about the same age, bikes are massively cheaper. Had my car license 18 months, still being quoted thousands for crap little hatchbacks. A 125 you can insure for a few hundred and once you have a full license bigger bikes won't be much more (or even less in some cases).
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Yamaha MT-03 '08 (crashed)
Honda XR-125L '04

[Baffler186]

based on your circumstances, I'd go for CBT and then get bank loan for a bike, gear and insurance. Read the insurance small print, but often paying insurance monthly will cost you more but you'll still be under contract to carry on for the year, and breaking this costs bucks.

If you decide biking isn't for you, or you encounter other logistical or practical problems, you can sell the 125 for pretty near as much as you paid for it, providing you and the previous owners have looked after it.

If you then decide you want a bigger bike, you can save for your DAS whilst still using the 125 and gaining experience.
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Current: 2009 SV650 S, 1990 Kawasaki GT550
Previous: 2009 CBF125, 1998 GSF600, 2004 FZ6 Fazer, 1978 CB400a Hondamatic

[Rogerborg]

I assume that Tef had a good go at putting you off by talking about running costs, maintenance and practicality?

Well, he's not wrong.

Bikes do need regular looking after, and small ones need more. I've just changed the rear tyre on my Enfield. It lasted just 5300 miles, cost £50 for the cheapest Elbonian rubber that's barely more substantial than a pushbike tyre, and took me 2 hours of sweating and swearing and eventually cutting the old one off to change it.

I ride nearly all year, but there are a few days when I fag out and take the car, and I wouldn't want to be without one during a bad winter. You can get waterproof gear, but how will you feel about riding to work in a lashing, howling gale, knowing that the same or worst awaits at midnight?

Unless you've got congestion or parking issues, then a small car does make more sense. The few minutes I make up with filtering are parking are countered (to be honest, probably more than countered) by faffing around with gear at each end.

And the thing is, you can get a functional cheap car for the same or less than a functional cheap bike. Bangernomics works.

However, I ride bikes because I love it. It's absolutely ace, especially in the summer and I am so glad that I gave it a go.

So I suggest that you do your CBT before making any commitments. If you're keen, pursue it. If it felt like a chore, dip your toe in gradually, and get a backup option for snow / ice / howling gale days.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Snoopy--x]

Teflon Mike: Thank you very much for your reply, you have given me lots to think about!

Thing is, without going into excess detail lol!
When I met my wonderful Mrs, she had (obviously still has) 3 beautiful little girls. Love them to pieces, so much so, we planned and had one together... Since then, we conceived on "The pill" to have bouncing baby girl number 5! And at the beginning of the year we conceived yet again on "The injection"... Needless to say: I'm getting the SNIP! :/

So that's 6 little girls or will be in September!

So a cheap little car wouldn't be big enough...

Me and the Mrs devised together that I should get a bike as cheap and economical as possible to get to work and back, and next year if I bag the pay rise I've got coming, we will try to get her a 7 seater!

I guess I could get 2 little cars? But either way "cheap" seems a little out the equation?

Now, of course, bikes do appeal to me massively! I've always wanted one! But.. Obviously the family and what's financially beneficial comes first.

Thanks for all the replies! I have a fair bit of thinking to do!

Knowing my situation a bit better now, any additional input is greatly welcome

[Teflon-Mike]

[Rogerborg]

Sounds like the missus will be getting number 7 from the postie then.

Welcome to BCF.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[wr6133]

[Andy_Pagin]

[Hefty]

[Rogerborg]

[Snoopy--x]

I'm a chef, so 12 hour kitchen shifts most days of the week. I also train for powerlifting so that's me out the house at 08:00 to train, then head to work for 11:00 have a coffee before work then hope to get home before 01:00 if it's been a quiet day!

Teflon Mike: Haha! So there are more people out there with teams of kids?? Makes me feel somewhat normal.

I'm guessing a 125 would be the route? I think I'd like more tuition though as it sounds like I'd be a bit lost out on the road after just 1 training day, which from what I've looked into this afternoon is done in groups? Does seem a tad dangerous...

Would be handy if any of my mates were bikers, could get some practise in with their bikes etc..

DAS seems like it would give a touch more confidence, but then as you say, cheap becomes not so cheap!


Rogerborg: Hats off to the post man if he manages to catch her with out all the kids jumping all over the gaf lol! The chances are few and far between... I'm just extremely accurate apparently =P

[Chuffin Nora]

[Pigeon]

Without any rode sense or knowledge, a 125 makes some good sense. It's slowness allows you time to build up instinct when reading the road, watching for hazards and understanding road signs etc

125 can also be the most ridiculously cheap mode of transport.
100mpg+, £15 service, £30 tyres

65mph top speed can be an issue for many. But given you are currently probably maxing out at 4mph when walking, 65 will be a revelation

Much of the world bumbles about on 125's for good reason. They are often cheap and uncomplicated. They do the job of moving you about.

Given your family, you might want to factor in some life insurance, at least look into it. Fall off a bike and even at low speed, if you hit something solid like a tree or kerb, you can get seriously injured or worse. Leaving those behind in the lurch.

[Snoopy--x]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Val]

as somebody already said 125 will be around £1500 altogether gear and bike and all and its most fun and frugal way over 100 mpg to get to work.

The only thing is you are doing night shifts and on any bike does not matter 125 or big one at night the risk some drink cager driving on you is real.

Depends on roads you choose I personally will go 125 route.

If you decide to go bike route please ignore whatever you know about right of way and do act and ride like you are invisible.

If you want to be a on really safe side get a small car.
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Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not...
Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900