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The Artist
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Pensions Reply with quote
I am guessing this is something to do with the new opt-out pension thing.
I got this months payslip and they have put in 1% of my monthly post tax earnings into a pension. I didn't know about this and haven't said anywhere that I want to. My employer appears to have put about 1.5% in so my current pension is about 2.5% of my current monthly post tax earnings.

Is this a good deal? I never liked the idea of a pension in the conventional sense and would much rather do my own savings and investments. However my employer putting in more than me seems like a very good deal.
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Re: Pensions Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
I am guessing this is something to do with the new opt-out pension thing.
I got this months payslip and they have put in 1% of my monthly post tax earnings into a pension. I didn't know about this and haven't said anywhere that I want to. My employer appears to have put about 1.5% in so my current pension is about 2.5% of my current monthly post tax earnings.

Is this a good deal? I never liked the idea of a pension in the conventional sense and would much rather do my own savings and investments. However my employer putting in more than me seems like a very good deal.


I have something similar, difference being the amount my employer puts in is extra to my basic salary so kind of like a bonus. Also I don't have to contribute. Look into it because I'm sure there is an opt out option so you get the cash instead.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
BCF hates pensions. So in before the whiners (I hope).

150% return on your savings plus tax savings on top of almost achieving the base rate is an excellent deal that you will not get anywhere else.

Take it as a part of your portfolio rather than your only possibility for retirement and you won't have any regrets. Plus, it's only 1% which you're unlikely to miss.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
BCF hates pensions. So in before the whiners (I hope).

150% return on your savings plus tax savings on top of almost achieving the base rate is an excellent deal that you will not get anywhere else.

Take it as a part of your portfolio rather than your only possibility for retirement and you won't have any regrets. Plus, it's only 1% which you're unlikely to miss.


Yeah this is what I am thinking. Thumbs Up Guaranteed 150% is pretty solid even if it is only 1% in each month.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
daemonoid wrote:
BCF hates pensions. So in before the whiners (I hope).

150% return on your savings plus tax savings on top of almost achieving the base rate is an excellent deal that you will not get anywhere else.

Take it as a part of your portfolio rather than your only possibility for retirement and you won't have any regrets. Plus, it's only 1% which you're unlikely to miss.


Yeah this is what I am thinking. Thumbs Up Guaranteed 150% is pretty solid even if it is only 1% in each month.


Guys.
Really?

This is just a way for the country to use the populations money.
They know you won't (or can't?) take it back, they have x amount of money to spend over the next x years.

When it's time for all these pensions to get paid out...
"We are going to invest this money for you and let you have £10 a week from the money you have put into the pot, oh and there is a new tax-free tax we have just invented. The tax collected will go towards saving kittens and children"

You're never getting that cash back.

In other news... I have just started a new company, NobCat Guaranteed Pensions.
Pay 0.5% of your earnings into the pot and by the time you retire it will be worth 250% of the total amount paid in Thumbs Up Very Happy Thumbs Up

YOU CAN'T LOSE WITH NGP!
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it a good deal? Well that depends on what pension your money is being invested in, some you'll make fuck all once fees are taken into account whilst other pension funds will give you great returns on your money.

I'd start by asking for some policy documents and other such details.

Generalisations about pensions being good or bad are just that; generalisations.

How much five ponds you put into your pension fund today will be worth in x years when you retire is another matter to consider!

What daemonoid says about taking is as a part of your portfolio rather than your only possibility makes sense. By the time you reach retirement age you'll probably be expected to work until you're 80 or something stupid like that before you can claim the state pension so having your own is certainly a good plan.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 24 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I was 20 I assumed I would die before I hit retirement age. These days it seems more important to have a retirement fund saved up. A pension is potentially a good idea because you get tax relief on it now - I'm a higher rate taxpayer so every £10 I put in only costs me £6 in take home pay and my employer puts in £10 too, so I get £20 in the pot at £6 cost to me.

Best thing you can do with your retirement fund is spread it around - some in a pension in a variety of funds, some in savings, some in property, some under the mattress etc. Hopefully you'll at least have some of it left when you retire.

2.5% isn't worth the bother though. Half your age when you started paying in, as a percentage, is the usual guideline.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
Guys.
Really?

This is just a way for the country to use the populations money.
They know you won't (or can't?) take it back, they have x amount of money to spend over the next x years.


These new schemes do not go to the government.

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/what-you-your-employer-and-the-government-pay
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pensions: loads of money for the parasites managing the cash, crumbs for you. Fact.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
AIUI, at the behest of the government, your employer must automatically enrol you into this scheme, if you're not happy with the scheme you have to take steps to opt out!
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
CaNsA wrote:
Guys.
Really?

This is just a way for the country to use the populations money.
They know you won't (or can't?) take it back, they have x amount of money to spend over the next x years.


These new schemes do not go to the government.

https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions/what-you-your-employer-and-the-government-pay


Where do you think the pension resides while waiting for you to get old?
Who do you think has control over it?
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/48654059.jpg

^^Pretty much. I got signed up to the scheme as well a couple of months ago. I'm conflicted on it, the way I had mine explained to me was that basically I put £70 a month in and ~£300 gets paid in a month (with salary sacrifice added). This looks like a good deal on the surface, but why you have to ask the obvious question - why the fuck am I getting such a sweet deal? If something sounds too good to be true an all that.

So basically the government is forcing you to become a gambler. Would you like to pay £70 a month for the next 40 years, in the hopes that it will pay out? And its all or nothing.

Whats the saying - the house always wins?

Hmmmm


GhostRider
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
GhostRider wrote:
https://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/48654059.jpg

^^Pretty much. I got signed up to the scheme as well a couple of months ago. I'm conflicted on it, the way I had mine explained to me was that basically I put £70 a month in and ~£300 gets paid in a month (with salary sacrifice added). This looks like a good deal on the surface, but why you have to ask the obvious question - why the fuck am I getting such a sweet deal? If something sounds too good to be true an all that.

So basically the government is forcing you to become a gambler. Would you like to pay £70 a month for the next 40 years, in the hopes that it will pay out? And its all or nothing.

Whats the saying - the house always wins?

Hmmmm


GhostRider


I can absolutely guarantee you that when it comes time to be paid out you'll get a letter saying "Oops, sorry, something went wrong (out of our control...govt, finances, crisis and ting) and your pension payouts will now be less than if you had just saved £70 a month as pure capital and used that instead (the bit making it up to £300pm, check out our corporate yacht)."

The 'churning' these scum do, to generate fraudulent management-fees, are truly breathtaking. One bent house sells shares to another bent house and vice-versa. It's like a perpetual merry-go-round of fraudulent transactions. "Oooh, there's another 2% cut out of his pot...aaand there's another...!"

You have a better chance of providing a pension worthy of its name by buying £70's worth of lotto tickets a month. Seriously. As all of my peers have found out since starting their pension contributions in the late 70s, early 80s.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, thats the thing a lot of chickens have come home to roost and the result being people being fucked out of their pensions, and it's not surprising really, there's no way it can work on paper, let alone in reality. Where's all this money supposed to be coming from?

I'll see how an interview next week goes and opt out in the changeover if things go my way.

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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
Where do you think the pension resides while waiting for you to get old?
Who do you think has control over it?


Let's make this fun, because it really want to hear what kind of crazy conspiracy you're assuming is happening here before you're burdened with reality...

Where do you think the pension resides? And who do you think has control over it?
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
CaNsA wrote:
Where do you think the pension resides while waiting for you to get old?
Who do you think has control over it?


Let's make this fun, because it really want to hear what kind of crazy conspiracy you're assuming is happening here before you're burdened with reality...

Where do you think the pension resides? And who do you think has control over it?


I think he understands that fraudulent Porsche-whoring filth have and control it and that's all he needs to know really.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
Let's make this fun, buy answering a question with a question


Rolling Eyes
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gubberment chin wag during breakfast:-

Quote:
Oh HAI! Very Happy
We need to get the deficit down, we need more workable capital but we have teh zero monies available to do it.
How can we make bigger teh amount of monies?
We needs to take teh monies from teh peoples and tell them that we will look after it for them and it will be worth more monies in several years.
will be teh winzors!
I has teh makings teh orsum scheme that the peoples will pay into and it will be teh orsum.
We can use that monies to make teh country betterings and for buyings of whiskey and cigars on our expense accounts.
when teh peoples start retirings we can make retiring age higher.
this is a orsum plan to take the money away from teh peoples, and it keeps them tied down and under the thumb.
WE ARE IN TEH CONTROLLINGS!


The key word in all this is "scheme".
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
GhostRider wrote:
So basically the government is forcing you to become a gambler. Would you like to pay £70 a month for the next 40 years, in the hopes that it will pay out? And its all or nothing.

Whats the saying - the house always wins?


Aw jeez, that's just utter nonsense. The government is forcing you and your employer to contribute to your retirement. That's what the scheme is...

There's no 'in the hope' about it... You are forced to pay 1% (for now), your employer the same (for now) and the gov doesn't tax it. In the end there's a chance you end up with less than the total contributed... But... There's virtually no chance of less than the total you contributed coming out.

Why is the gov doing it? Because it's cheaper to avoid all liability with pension funds and hand them off to businesses with seizable assets. Pensions are one of the biggest costs to the gov and they want out as best they can. Moving the liability to your employer is the easiest way for them.

Unfortunately most of us are very daft as far as these things go, no one wants a pension when they're young, only as they approach retirement do they suddenly start to worry. Legislation is necessary unless you think the gov should have no duty of care?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
daemonoid wrote:
Let's make this fun, buy answering a question with a question


Rolling Eyes


Yep, I did it specifically because I think you don't have the first clue about any of it but are just wanting to rant.

The funds are private and nothing to do with gov. The gov is doing its best to avoid anything to do with it!

So... There's the fact the fund is managed by some company... But! 99% of companies allow you to choose your own if you so desire! essentially managing it yourself. If you care passionately enough then make sure you sign up to one of these, manage it yourself and invest in something low risk...

Finally the gov gets something right for the benefit of the population and still nothing but I'll informed ranting...
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
Legislation is necessary unless you think the gov should have no duty of care?


https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TS1Q3ivmQ8c/U5JLhnX281I/AAAAAAAAG_o/y-t0t_V-r4Q/s1600/Yoga4.gif
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
Gubberment chin wag during breakfast:-

Quote:
Oh HAI! Very Happy
We need to get the deficit down, we need more workable capital but we have teh zero monies available to do it.
How can we make bigger teh amount of monies?
We needs to take teh monies from teh peoples and tell them that we will look after it for them and it will be worth more monies in several years.
will be teh winzors!
I has teh makings teh orsum scheme that the peoples will pay into and it will be teh orsum.
We can use that monies to make teh country betterings and for buyings of whiskey and cigars on our expense accounts.
when teh peoples start retirings we can make retiring age higher.
this is a orsum plan to take the money away from teh peoples, and it keeps them tied down and under the thumb.
WE ARE IN TEH CONTROLLINGS!


The key word in all this is "scheme".


Do you know how pensions work now? The gov pays pensioners out of tax we are contributing right now. The gov relies on a constant growth in the working age population in order to ensure it can cover this debt. We are paying for our parents and children are expected to pay for us. Unfortunately as life expectancy increases this ends up unsustainable, so yes in the grand scheme of things we are being asked to pay for ourselves. And as with everything gov related we are the ones who pay, but... For once this is sound economics trumping vote winning or pocket lining.

Can you suggest alternatives? Because time has shown people will never do it for themselves without a push. I guess there are 2 options... 1. Let the old fend for themselves/work 2. Put up taxes
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:


Yep, I did it specifically because I think you don't have the first clue about any of it but are just wanting to rant.

The funds are private and nothing to do with gov. The gov is doing its best to avoid anything to do with it!

So... There's the fact the fund is managed by some company... But! 99% of companies allow you to choose your own if you so desire! essentially managing it yourself. If you care passionately enough then make sure you sign up to one of these, manage it yourself and invest in something low risk...

Finally the gov gets something right for the benefit of the population and still nothing but I'll informed ranting...


Holy mother of god, I can't tell if you're trolling or serious! Laughing

The day this, or any government, displays an iota of care for the common working man will be the same day hell freezes over. Anything they do 'give' is only to prevent revolution and anyone incapable of that gets it hard and deep in the ass. Bedroom tax? Non-living wages? Prices of everything through the roof, wages down the shitter (but not for the politicians, no siree! 11% for those vermin. On top of a wage that was already far in excess of what's needed to live very comfortably).

And you think people will see an advantage from being able to "manage it themselves"?! Seriously?! I'm crying with laughter here! "Coo...I can choose between letting that scumbag handle my cash or that scumbag!"

Laughing

Where's me hanky!
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
CaNsA wrote:
Gubberment chin wag during breakfast:-

Quote:
Oh HAI! Very Happy
We need to get the deficit down, we need more workable capital but we have teh zero monies available to do it.
How can we make bigger teh amount of monies?
We needs to take teh monies from teh peoples and tell them that we will look after it for them and it will be worth more monies in several years.
will be teh winzors!
I has teh makings teh orsum scheme that the peoples will pay into and it will be teh orsum.
We can use that monies to make teh country betterings and for buyings of whiskey and cigars on our expense accounts.
when teh peoples start retirings we can make retiring age higher.
this is a orsum plan to take the money away from teh peoples, and it keeps them tied down and under the thumb.
WE ARE IN TEH CONTROLLINGS!


The key word in all this is "scheme".


Do you know how pensions work now? The gov pays pensioners out of tax we are contributing right now. The gov relies on a constant growth in the working age population in order to ensure it can cover this debt. We are paying for our parents and children are expected to pay for us. Unfortunately as life expectancy increases this ends up unsustainable, so yes in the grand scheme of things we are being asked to pay for ourselves. And as with everything gov related we are the ones who pay, but... For once this is sound economics trumping vote winning or pocket lining.

Can you suggest alternatives? Because time has shown people will never do it for themselves without a push. I guess there are 2 options... 1. Let the old fend for themselves/work 2. Put up taxes


3. Stop wasting billions on utter shite and rampant corruption.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 25 Jul 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
GhostRider wrote:
So basically the government is forcing you to become a gambler. Would you like to pay £70 a month for the next 40 years, in the hopes that it will pay out? And its all or nothing.

Whats the saying - the house always wins?


Aw jeez, that's just utter nonsense. The government is forcing you and your employer to contribute to your retirement. That's what the scheme is...

There's no 'in the hope' about it... You are forced to pay 1% (for now), your employer the same (for now) and the gov doesn't tax it. In the end there's a chance you end up with less than the total contributed... But... There's virtually no chance of less than the total you contributed coming out.

Why is the gov doing it? Because it's cheaper to avoid all liability with pension funds and hand them off to businesses with seizable assets. Pensions are one of the biggest costs to the gov and they want out as best they can. Moving the liability to your employer is the easiest way for them.



..and when that company folds?

Those seizable assets go through a cash-converters style audit.

"Hmm yeah guv, I know its WORTH £500, but you see this scratch on the underside when the light catches it a certain way? Yeeeeah thats a problem, £34 and a pack of hob nobs, and thats my final offer....."

GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.
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