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notbike
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 Posted: 00:29 - 30 Jul 2014  Post subject: |
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If you're 17 it'll make a little more sense, and I'm assuming since you have £4k to play with money isn't an issue, otherwise I can't see any reason to buy a new 125. Do bare in mind that you're losing half of that 4k at the end of those 3 years, by which you might as well have bought a second hand one for 2k in the first place and had 2k to spare.
The Duke is a very nice bike for a new 125, so if you're set on getting a new 125 I'd go for the Duke over the CBF because it's nice and shiny. The only thing that separates any 125 from another is the nice looks, unless it's a derestricted 2 stroke which wouldn't be learner legal anyway.
Also factor into your budget the cost of repairs, maintenance, insurance, and decent gear before settling on the bike.
Any other advice would be if you really must get a new 125, try your best not to drop the thing. It's brand new and you're learning, the last thing you want is to drop the bike or write it off when you're still on finance. |
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Baffler186
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Shinigami
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| Posted: 09:08 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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Do not buy a (newish) CBF125, just do a quick search on this forum for why 
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Current: Honda City Fly CLR125 2003 Honda CB600F Hornet 2008 Yamaha FZ6 S2 + 1991 Kawasaki GPZ500
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Jefr0
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| Posted: 09:16 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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If you're looking to do the finance route, the best of both worlds of advice given is to get a loan for £1,500 at most for a 2nd hand 125.
That's a £2.5k saving already. When it comes to sell, you might lose a bit on it but not as much as a £4k bike down to less than £2k.
As a first bike, it's almost inevitable you may damage it, dropping it, or a little off.
Get your tests done then spend more on a bike 
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Slacker24seve...
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| Posted: 09:34 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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Secondhand YBR for under a grand. Rest into the big bike/DAS fund.
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_Iain_
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| Posted: 12:58 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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With £4k I'd buy two used bikes.
A sensible £1k commuterbike, late model CG125 would be my shout on that at no more than £800, or possibly stretch the budget to £1500 and get an injected '11 onwards YBR with sub 10k miles. It'll never let you down, cost fuck all to run, it's unlikely to get pinched and won't cost anything to repair.
That then leaves you £2-3k to get a fun bike. RS125, NSR125, Mito 125, CR125, YZ125, MX125, DT125 etc. Two stroke, lightweight and a bit quick. Then you can go hooning at the weekend, or greenlaning, or whatever takes your fancy - the servicing will cost more etc, but you'll be using it less as it's purely a toy & nowt more. Plus if one of the fancy exotic supersports breaks down,you've still got the CG to get you to work on Monday!
If you did the commuter for £800 and the lolbike for £2k, you'd likely find the £1200 you had left over covers you for insuring both bikes, if not your gear aswell.
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 14:10 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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| Sam Millar wrote: | Thanks for the advice. I'm buying new because it's giving me the flexibility to buy with finance |
Negative Equity.. owing more against something, than it is worth.
You buy brand new bike, for say £4000. You 'owe; £4000 + the full interest over repayment period; for 2 yrs @ 20% that might be £1200.
So, before you begin, you owe, £5200 against something that costs, only £4000... and the moment you wheel it out the door... its not a new bike.. it's second hand... and worth maybe £3000... So you have a £3000 motorcycle, and owe £2,200 MORE than its worth..
Think about this... 1) You decide you don't like it and want something different, wheel it back into the dealers.... they give you 'trade in value' for the bike, and instantly you are liable to settle the finance, and have to find the entire £2,200 to cover the 'negative equity'.
2) Bike gets stolen... insurance co pay the market value of the bike... £3,000... not to YOU, but to the HP co... you no longer own the bike, YOU have to settle the outstanding finance, and find £2,200 straight away.. or make arrangements... you could be paying for a bike some fucktard thief is having fun on for another YEAR...
3)The bike gets damaged... by YOU... you fall off it.... you have fully comp insurance... makes sense, anything happens to the bike, they pay repairs, regardless who's to blame. Did you know, that a Yamaha YZF-R125, can be 'written off' by an insurance company as a 'total loss' for merely falling off the center stand? Well it can. Genuine Yamaha prices for those fancy sporty fairing panels are pretty exhorbitant; and insurance company would assess damage by bits that need replacing; not bodging it back together with gaffer tape and a bit of paint... also, a nearly new YZF-R125 is almost worth as much 'scrap' for the parts in it that can be sold for spares, as it is as a whole bike on the high-street; SO they are very likely to write one off, for any claim, 'total-loss'; and when they do, bike becomes thier proprty, and they pay your finance co the market value, less policy excess, and leave you instantly liable to make up the difference... or make arrangement to carry on paying till its cleared; leaving you bike-less, but still paying for bike you don't have.
For approximately 2/3 of any finance agreement, you are likely to be in this 'Negative Equity' Trap; owing more than you own, making payments that are constantly behind the interest and depreciation on the bike. And for that entire period... any crap happens, you can be stuffed with a big bill, and have to find that cash you didn't have in the first-place, or keep paying for something you no longer have or can make use of.
Think long and hard about this. I was always told; if you cant afford to buy something 'cash' then you cant afford to buy it on credit.
But it's 'risk'... could all go well for you, but even so, in two years time, after spending maybe £5-5,500 in list price and credit charges for a £4000 bike... have something worth less than half that left at the end.... thats a LOT of money, JUST to have something new and flash....
Think on this... brand new YBR125 is only £2400 in the show-room... has as much functional value; its practically as fast... it'll do everything any other 125 might, pretty much... and the sort of money you are talking about is like walking into a dealers, buying one of THEM brand new, and chucking it away in two years time....
When in fact, it would still probably be worth around £12-14,00, and in the time you'd have owned it probably cost you a damn site less in insurance and general running costs;
Also a little less likely to get stolen... 125's are VERY high risk, 'fancy' ones, even more desirable to tea-leaves, because they can pose about on them, and plenty of suckers who cant afford to run them, wont ask questions when they need bits to fix crash damage.
Also less likely to risk write off for minor cosmetic damage, like falling off the side stand; there's less to break, and what there is tends not to be so expensive.
Its a LOT less risk, EVEN if you bought one of them on credit... but you are still talking about spending a HELL of a lot of money, you dont have, (or you wouldn't be thinking of financing!) on a bike you cant really afford, to get? Well.. infantesimile insignificant performance advantage and a lot of very questionable 'style' cudos.
Like I said... over two years, even if all goes well, those 'small' pluses will have cost you the same as buying a brand new YBR125 and throwing it away.
Think... think LONG and think HARD about this. Its NOT as easy as it sounds and its the hidden risks and pitfalls that are likely to come back and bite you in the bum.... HARD.
| Sam Millar wrote: | and I don't plan to do my tests for at least two years |
Well change THAT plan for starters.
Riding on L's a a privilege, a concession of legacy legislation from days when only way a learner could learn was siding on their own. Every other road user has to prove they are competent enough to ride before they are allowed out on thier own in a motor vehicle, YET its incredible, motorcycles statistically THE most dangerouse form of motorised transport are the only one we let utter numpties out on with the scantiest of training or preparation. and as a 17 year old, on L's on a 125, YOU are one of THE most likely to get hurt, and badly.
You can break almost all UK speed limits on a 125; only one that might be a bit of a challenge for some is the duel-carriageway limit of 70mph, but many can still top it, even 'restricted' ones. Meanwhile, MOST motorcycle accidents DONT actually happen at speed or on higher speed limit roads. MOST happen on 20, 30 & 40mph 'restricted' urban roads.
Tiddlers ENT 'Toys', and being little don't bean you cant still get hurt big on them. You face pretty much the same risks on a 125 as you do on ANY other motorcycle.. and the biggest one is probably YOU.
Young riders (and drivers) under 25 years old are the most likely to crash. L-platers even more so; BOYS more still. Three hits YOU qualify on all three counts, statistically, to very soon become one.
You cant do fuck all about getting old.... I wish we could... believe me!
You PROBABLY don't want to do anything that might be surgically be possible about being a boy....
Which leaves what? what is the ONE thing you can do something about to get yourself out of that most at risk group?
Yup GET A FUCKING LICENCE.
And it ENT hard. If you are planning on riding a bike as main transport every day, you will either be hurt... or doing 99% of what's needed to pass tests every day.
Theory? Mod 1 & Mod 2, self booked, and done on the 125 you intend to buy ANYWAY, cost just £121.50... pretty much what a repeat CBT does.... and you would have to re-do that to carry on riding when yours expires, or to step up top do A2 licence training, when you would still have Theory to get sorted... so, even cheaper... £90 ish.
AT the beginning, get the licence; its a perpetual CBT cert, and RATHER than having the months ebb away on your CBT cert you have months counting down on the New Driver Act 2 year probation, when they will take your licence off you for just 6 penalty points... (and they can wallop you with two just for loosing an L-Plate, you know?), rip it up and make you start over... and be spending them two years on a bike, of lesser performance, without L's less likely to encourage or help you get into situations that might get you them points.
Being able to carry pillions and use motorways, may be small advantages, but nice to know you can, even if you don't.
Then IF you want to step up to an A2 licence; you have a clear shot; you wont have to repeat CBT before you start, nor worry about getting your theory cert; you can book some training and get straight on with it; AND, having actually done the tests once, they are exactly the same tests, just done on a different sized bike... you ought to have plenty of confidence having spent an afternoon or two getting used to weight and power of a bigger bike; you can go do them again, and get 1st time pass.
SO; its ALL win. Costs fuck all to get a licence and ditch the L's. Gets you one step out of the danger zone... might not be far, but you don't have to out-run the lion, just the guy next to you... and showing the 'sense' its likely to carry on taking you further from the Danger-Zone. Gets your NDA probation gone. Gives you the opportunity to use motorways or carry pillons. And sets you up, for bigger things later, with potential savings and the most important thing CONFIDENCE all the way.
Put getting the licence first, NOT the bike. Licences are for life. Bikes never last.
| Sam Millar wrote: | At least this way I will have got use of the bike and it will be paid off and ready to sell when I'm finished with it after three years. Bearing that in mind would your advice still stand? |
Its a re-iterative question, only you can answer; BUT; three year credit deal; remember the neg-equity trap; you sign up for that, and in all liklihood, in two years, when old enough to do A2, being on L's and having a 125 on finance are both likely to hold you back.
Being on L's will mean you have to go repeat CBT and get the theory sorted before you can begin; plus find money for lessons, and bike hire and tests... meanwhile; your 125 wont be able to help you much, it'll have done pretty much all it can... and you wont be able to easily sell on, with a years finance left to pay... it's likely at that point you will only 'just' be at the breakpoint that the bike might be worth as much as the outstanding credit, so at best, be able to cash out quits.
If you sold on, after settling the credit, you would probably not have much cash back, if any, either to put towards training for A2 licence, or a bigger A2 bike... so you would effectively be back to where you are at now... no bike, little money, and needing to find big money to do anything. And that is IF all goes well, given the risks of bike getting crashed or nicked, or reclaimed by credit co if 'something' happens and you cant keep up payements.
So, IS credit REALLY such a good idea?
And if it's devil and the deep, and the ONLY way to get a bike... is stretching the credit THAT far to get a 'posey' one, with much more risk attached, such a good idea?
YBR125, is almost half the cost and less than half the risk... to do practically the same job.... is that a better idea?
Half the cost again; second hand YBR or similar, is £1200-1400... we are now down to the sort of money that could be found cash, more readily... and if it DOES go completely pear shaped... writing that off, is less than the cost of turning brand new £4K bike into second hand one worth £3, wheeling it through the showroom doors... THAT is the instant 'dead money' you are chucking away, buying new.
And at 17, you aren't old enough to take out finance; legally you would have to have some-one over 18 with a credit rating counter-sign the credit agreement, if not take it out in their name for you.
Ie you are going to have to ask some-one else to borrow the money to buy this bike for you.... do they have a credit card? 'cos that same person could probably get £1200 'increase' in thier credit card limit as easily as they could an HP deal on a bike... and with a little money shuffling, buying everything on thier credit card for a month or six weeks, instead off on the debit card, loan you CASH the price of 2nd hand YBR... and you then have much smaller loan, much less risk, and a lot more 'flexibility'... finance ISN'T fucking flexible, its a ruddy millstone...
And at 17 years old, 3 years is like, FOREVER.. it's actually 17% of your life thus far... probably longer than you have had an interest in bikes, so far. A LOT can happen in 3 years, and you are gambling a LOT of money on it, probably without even realising.
But, all questions WE cant answer... up to you to work out what is right for you...just make your decission an informed one, and check out all options, and read the fucking small-print.... it's rarely buy now, pay later; they catch you in the heat of the moment, you buy now and pay-for-fucking-ever!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Ben90 |
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Ben90
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| Posted: 14:47 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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^ OP, meet Tef - the one-man thread.
He's very right as well.
Or, if you don't want your license right away;
1. Buy secondhand jap 125 for £1.5k max
2. put remaining £2.5k away in a 3% savings account/p2p lending, add a few hundred more as you go for A2 training
3. Under two years time you'll be £150 up in interest which covers test fees
4. Sell bike, book training and tests with 4k still in your pocket
4. Win at life.
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Last edited by Ben90 on 16:31 - 30 Jul 2014; edited 1 time in total |
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andyscooter
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| Posted: 15:39 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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if you want new buy new
what every one on here seems to forget is if no one bought new there wouldnt be any second hand ones to buy 
in ten years half of the bikes around now will ahve been crashed that many times they woill be like triggers broom
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stevo as b4
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| Posted: 17:24 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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I like Iains plan, but the sensible commuter 125 would have to be mechanically sorted and in decent all round nick, so that it would be a keeper bike for when I got a bigger/next bike.
Having a simple cheap to run 125 in the shed that costs minimal pennies to run is desirable for any biker even if they don't admit it. Get a good, tidy but reasonably priced 125 and look after it, and keep it period (storage space allowing).
For a 2nd bike you could either:
1, do as Iain suggested and get a fun bike, but IMO the only way two 125's are logical is if one is an off road bike or a track bike. In either case you don't even need it to be a 125cc capacity, and a tidy MX or enduro bike would be cool, even if it was only ever used off road.
2, save the cash towards your next bike/bigger bike.
3, Buy a cheap big bike project and spend the next 2years working on it and restoring/sorting it out, so the day you pass your DAS you have a big beast sat in the garage ready to tax and insure, and best of all you will feel more proud and so much more the man, if you built it yourself and made it how you want it.
As a left field option, if you really wanted a brand new 125 and it needed to last no more than 2years, I'd consider Stinkwheel's logic, of blowing say £1500 on a new Chinq bike and just chuck it in a skip after 2years or when it is knackered/needs money spending on repairs etc. |
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| Slacker24seve... |
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Slacker24seve...
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| Posted: 17:38 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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| stevo as b4 wrote: | I like Iains plan, but the sensible commuter 125 would have to be mechanically sorted and in decent all round nick, so that it would be a keeper bike for when I got a bigger/next bike.
Having a simple cheap to run 125 in the shed that costs minimal pennies to run is desirable for any biker even if they don't admit it. Get a good, tidy but reasonably priced 125 and look after it, and keep it period (storage space allowing).
For a 2nd bike you could either:
1, do as Iain suggested and get a fun bike, but IMO the only way two 125's are logical is if one is an off road bike or a track bike. In either case you don't even need it to be a 125cc capacity, and a tidy MX or enduro bike would be cool, even if it was only ever used off road.
2, save the cash towards your next bike/bigger bike.
3, Buy a cheap big bike project and spend the next 2years working on it and restoring/sorting it out, so the day you pass your DAS you have a big beast sat in the garage ready to tax and insure, and best of all you will feel more proud and so much more the man, if you built it yourself and made it how you want it.
As a left field option, if you really wanted a brand new 125 and it needed to last no more than 2years, I'd consider Stinkwheel's logic, of blowing say £1500 on a new Chinq bike and just chuck it in a skip after 2years or when it is knackered/needs money spending on repairs etc. |
Option 4: buy a cheap 125 and put the rest towards getting an ACU licence and a low capacity track bike. You'll be the envy of all your mates.
____________________
Triumph Daytona 675 track bike + girlfriend's Honda Hornet 600
Selling a hack/winter bike for less than a grand? PM me.
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 21:17 - 30 Jul 2014 Post subject: |
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| Sam Millar wrote: | I appreciate your comments but it seems most are giving the opinion of what you would do in my situation, could someone take into account the circumstances I've mentioned about being set of finance and only an extra £200-300 apr, commuter and the fact I have biking experience.Thx xD |
I dont think you do really apreciate the advice offered at all, actually. Every one has said much the same; buying a brand new 125 on credit is not a very sensible thing to do.
For my part; I have not told you what to do, merely offered caution on what you plan. Its not what I 'would' do.. cos I have no need to buy a learner-legal motorcycle for commuting; I have half a dozen already, as well as a few big bikes kicking around, and licence to ride them.
BUT,it is coincidental, advice offered IS actually based on what I DID do, twenty odd years ago, when in your situation, at Uni, needing transport I DID buy a brand new 125 on finance.
Similarly with ten years of biking and school-boy trials before that, I also thought would be pretty good preparation for riding a road bike... strange though, SMIDSY's seem pretty indescriminate and dont care who they bring down, or how much off-road experience they may have had... or any of the other myriad hazards public roads present us with... guess how I learned that one? Yup. I could 'ride a bit' too, before I got on the road, and it did bugger all to stop me being brought off, or the insurance company trying to write off my bike for a fuck site less than I still owed on it. Nor did it stop the bike getting nicked.. and similarly, leaving me fighting to stop them write it off and leave me in big debt.
Only significant difference in my plan, when I was 19, was that I planned, from the start to get a bike licence with the damn thing, which I did. Unfortunately locked into an HP deal on the 125, wasn't able to do bugger all with my nice new 'ride what you like liceence', trading up to anything bigger, until the HP was virtually settled, 'cos I didn't have the money to 'cash out'.
But seems you dont actually want advice, and certainly not the benefit of our 'wisdom' having done what you plan; you simply want affirmation of your ideas and aspirations to confirm your choice... in which case, go buy the bike you want; you is going to have to learn from your own mistakes, 'cos you ent learning jack shit from us..
Want to keep the blinkers on and force an accademic choice between CBF & KTM? OK... CBF... has a really crap reputation for reliability & finish, just like the KTM; plenty of buyers seem to have pretty poor dealer service, again like the KTM.. B-U-T... Honda have a far greater number of dealers to piss you around, and they charge barely half as much for the privilidge.... hows that sound?
OR do you want to go back and re-consider the entire plan, taking on board the overwhelming weight of opinion suggesting buying second hand and cash in hand? It's still your choice.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 198 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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