Honda nsr 125r 1 foxeye oddness.. Leeds uk

[joshuaHolden]

What I thought was a bust starter motor now looks to be a bigger problem, I bought a new starter of t'ebay and opened up the stator casing in order to release the bolts holding the starter to the body and a good chunk of transmission oil spilled forth, I wonder, should this area be running wet?

Assuming this normal of sorts I liberally liquid gasketified the casing and put it back on, problem solved... no.... the starter still had the same problem.

The problem with the starter motor is this:

When the ignition switch is pressed sometimes it bites turns the engine over a small amount and seems to disengage as I can hear the buzz of the motor running, most of the time however it just seems to spin and not engage at all.....

The bike runs seemingly perfectly when bump started.

Any ideas on both points (oil in stator || starter motor not engaging ) welcome Cheers!

[skatefreak]

Right.
This wont be great news either way

The oil in the stator housing should not be there.
This needs to be fixed because it will drain into your starter and bugger that up pretty quick no doubt.
You will have a leaking seal causing this.

Is it just straight engine/transmission oil from the gearbox or is it two stoke oil/fuel from the crank shaft seal?

Secondly, the starter not engaging could be that the centrifugal pinion needs lubricating (although if its been bathed in oil from the stator housing then maybe not?

I got water in one once and it rusted up and would spin but not engage.

Another though is low/duff battery?
If the battery is not charged enough/is not holding enough charge to spin the starter hard enough to engage or long enough to start?

The quickest and easiest place to start would be the battery.

Get a multi meter on there, find out the voltage at rest, at idle and at 3,000 rpm.

The crank seal will be an engine out, top end off and bottom end split. What's the mileage? It may be worth considering doing the bottom end bearings and a new top end whilst you there (£30 in bearings and seals and as you are taking most of it apart/out anywho...).

Let us know how it goes with the battery.

Best regards

-Jvr

Ps, where are you? Someone may be near by with tools (castle nut sockets, although you can make these)/knowledge to help you )

[joshuaHolden]

I am in Leeds (Roundhay), it's just transmission oil.
That would be nice as I was pretty scammed with the bike and have sunk almost £1900 on the beast so far...

[skatefreak]

Right,
Two possibilities.

Firstly the neutral gear select sensor goes in the orange bit.

https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/jc22cc.jpg

This may possibly be leaking slowly.
This is a long shot however would be the easiest part to check.
You would only need to remove the stator cover.

There is a seal between the compartment this is housed and the stator/starter compartment however as its so easy to check its worth a shot.
Check to see if there is any oil in this compartment (I would expect to see lots!).
If you cant find any obvious reason for oil leaking from there (no crush washer/striations on the mating surfaces) then clean both compartments, clean the mating surfaces for the seal between then with carb/clutch/break cleaner/Acetone and use some silicon sealant (just a touch) to make sure they are properly separated.

Ride the bike for a little while and check again.

If this is not he case then (more likely sadly), I'm willing to put my money on it being oil seal no 7 in the diagram (circled in red):

The seal will only cost a few £ however you will need a full gasket set as the entire engine will need to be stripped down.

I would be more than happy to help however you are 150 miles away from me which is to far to travel as we may find ourselves waiting on parts as well depending on what is found when the engine is opened up

I am hoping someone else may chime in if there are any other possibilities which require less work but I dont see any
These are the only two places transmission oil can migrate.

Its not that hard a job, just takes time, patients, a methodical approach, some castle nut sockets (can be made easily with a dremel and donor sockets) but anyone with experience would be a huge bonus!

I couldn't tell you for sure how long it will take.
When I did my NSR JC22 engine I was waiting on seals/bearings etc and took my time checking the whole bottom end as I have alternative transport.

Do you have any experience pulling engines out/apart?

Best regards

-Jvr

[joshuaHolden]

No experience with a 2 stroke, but I have worked on 4strokes before and had the engine out, I'm not bothering with the paper gaskets to be fair, I have always had better luck with silicone/hermetite (bad idea??) **EDIT, bought a full gasket kit off ebay**

Regardless, I have a week off work next week, and have all the parts needed to :

Replace fork seals

Replace small end bearing as I think I can hear it rattling a pingy noise when revved

replace back brake pads.

Break the engine and silicone all engine seals (also clean the piston and order a replacement kit for when it dies (I presume the only way to know the piston size ahead of time is to break the engine?)

I even have the castle bit now off ebay, just could do with a bit of guidance for the first take apart....


So far,

Have radiator off and air box, ready to start on the engine but i'm reticent to start quite yet without someone having a quick look!


The bit I'm really worried about is the suspension as I have pretty much run out of money now and can't afford the proper tools to do it!

If anyone can help for a bit I'll throw in beer/smoke/ a place to kip for the night if required.... I can even chuck it a rear wheel, and a rough but working starter motor as additional payment if required!

Cheers,

Joshua

[joshuaHolden]

So, I stripped it down, something terrible happened!!

One of the bolts on the cylinder head is obscured by a RC Valve, inside that it is bolted to the engine block with 2 alan headed machine bolts, problem is, a helpful previous owner has completely shredded the head, it's.. circular, I have a bike in pieces ... help, how to deal with bolts with a stripped head wherein it's almost impossible to access with anything other than a ratchet..

[skatefreak]

Stripped Allen bolt...
A few options.

My first attempt would be a torques bit:
https://www.ereplacementparts.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/torxbit.jpg

Slightly over sized and eased into the bolt with a hammer Gently. This can usually work quiet well but has to be over sized and lined up with what remains of the old allen pattern to seat best.

Second approach would be:
https://static.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/article_main_image/public/images/car_photo_19725.jpg?itok=sYOCsWup

That and some penetrating oil.

If this fails...
Is the bolt magnetic?
You could possibly weld a nut on the top if there is space and get a ratchet spanner on there?

This is one of the more frustrating sides to spannering, then things don't go smoothly.

Finally, if that's not an option/failed to...

Do you have a dremmel/angle grinder?

If you do/can get hold of one, another option is to cut the top off the bolt. With the released tension you should be able to get the shaft out without much trouble once you lift the head off.

A few options there...

You also mention silicon for the seals when you split the engine?
I'm not familiar with this approach?
Personally I would change the seals for fresh ones and they dont cost much and its a lot of work to get back to the seals once you get it all back together again if they go
If its something I've just not encountered and is reliable then fair play!

For the fork seals, you shouldnt need any fancy tools to strip down the forks and the old seals can be driven in carefully with a hammer using the old seals to drive the new ones in. Be sure to work your way around the seals evenly though

Best of luck. Let us know how you get on!

-Jvr

[joshuaHolden]

Thanks for your replies, can't get a mole grip in to the gap, don't have a welder and the bolts are aluminium, (will try a selection of hex keys tonight, I may even go over sized and hammer it in) .... however I ordered a dremmel and I recon if I cut slits into the bolt heads with a metal cutter disk I can use a neg-drive screwdriver to get them out, I also ordered a stud extractor tool in case!


As for silicone I mean black silicone "liquid gasket", but to be honest, red hermetite is better, I used it for years on my old 4 stroke in place of gaskets, not a problem, in-fact it was a bike mechanic who advised I use it instead of gaskets, I would be interested to know if anyone knows of any drawbacks of doing this?

[skatefreak]

I cant foresee any problems using it for outer covers etc however you would have trouble putting the main engine cases together without the gasket as they are used to space the transmission/crank .

Without it you would certainly overstress the main end/transmission bearings.

Best of luck getting the screw out.

Let us know.

-Jvr

[joshuaHolden]

ARGH!

Dremel all the cutting disks exploded and I cant get in properly, the bolt extractors also don't fit, depressed now I even tried a blowtorch :'(

Just went to buy more cutting disks and I got told that they are illegal ..... stupid hardware store, i'm half tempted now to crowbar it off and wait until I can afford a new top end and rc valve

[skatefreak]

Hmmm.
Thinking about it, that should be a stud going through to the crank case with a nut on the end holding the cylinder on...



Hacksaw the head off the bolt holding it in.
Once its off you can get purchase on the thread thats left, access will be a lot better so you can apply penetrating fluid/heat etc to get it out...

Was the metal just to soft for the dremmel disks to cut effectively?

-Jvr

[joshuaHolden]

I can't get the hacksaw in it's too enclosed, I suppose I need to drop the engine out of the frame but I can't figure out how.

Not too soft, just too obscured, the cutting blade has to go in at a weird angle and it kept cracking the disks.

[joshuaHolden]

[_Iain_]

Claims to have done engine work, and had better results with instant gasket than proper gaskets in the past. Bolts are all being rounded off very early on...

Plus this;

[DrSnoosnoo]

I'm in Birkenshaw, pretty much the other side of Leeds to you and would be willing to come over, not that I have a clue of what to do but perhaps another set of eyes could be helpful. BUT I'm busy this weekend, gonna try getting my Turbo MR2 running but if you're still struggling come next week, I can try to pay a visit?
____________________
I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[joshuaHolden]

[skatefreak]

The bolt you are currently trying to get out should be a nut on a stud.
That is if its the red one in the pic below.

Just to clarify, it is where the red dot is and not the green ones yes?
https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/untitled.jpg


-Jvr

[joshuaHolden]

[joshuaHolden]

[joshuaHolden]

Thanks for your help, I suspect it is the number 7 oil seal also, what is the serial# for this so I can get a new one, Will I need to buy a flywheel lock to get the engine seal in as I now have the new gasket set.

Maybe Iane was right, worried now I have turned almost 2.5k into a messy paperweight.

Thank you once again for your help skatefreak and others!

[joshuaHolden]

So, now the engine is out I used some proper dremel cutting disks, not the cheap Chinese ones as before and success, I cut a 5mm slit in each and used a flat head screwdriver to take the bolts out

Turns out the bolt underneath needs a 12mm ring, I had every size but... so waiting on a ring spanner from ebay, then I can replace the piston

Back to the other issue now, I need to examine the number 7 oil seal as II think it's obscured by the flywheel (or do I half to split the engine in the middle, if so how please) in the above illustration from skatefreak, are there any instructions as to how I can do this?

Thanks so far Skate!!

[skatefreak]

From memory I suspect if you get the clutch & flywheel off then you can get the balancing weight off and it may come out without having to split the cases.

For the clutch you can make a castle nut socket using a donor socket (21mm I think, will double check though). wrap electrical tape over the end, cut the middle out, put it over the castle nut, knock it with a mallet/anything really and then you have the imprint for you castle nut socket .

Aside from that you don't need any other specialist tools, you can lock the flywheel then clutch with some folded newspaper in-between the cogs on the clutch side, the flywheel can be tapped off with a mallet & soft metal drift/strong dowel through the hole for the starter motor.

Will have a dig and find out about that seal, if you can get away without splitting the cases that would be good news!

Best regards.

-Jvr