Driving without Traffic Lights

[sniff6]

If you think Hyde Park Corner is bad.Try Ethiopia!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcmJQ0Kpr24
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[Alpha-9]

[Rogerborg]

A couple of months back I was coming up to one of the few congested junctions on my commute. There wasn't the usual queue, I wondered why.

The lights were out. So folk were actually... paying attention. Negotiating. Taking turns. Cheery waves were waved.

Everyone got through quicker, very few kittens died to bring us this information.
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[doggone]

There was a water leak down our road and it took about a week to fix it in painfully slow stages as different teams arrived taking most of a day to do each aspect of the job

So temporary lights were there so long they eventually stopped working.
When they were going, people would go faster to try and beat the lights, or ignore them as they changed, or think they would go anyway on red since you could almost see past.
When they went out they approached it carefully and considerately as if it were a couple of parked vehicles.

[andyscooter]

if you ever drive/ride through worcester when there is a powercut it runs millions of times better

normally takes about half hour to get from centre out to the main road in

no lights working it takes about 10 minutes
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gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
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[tbourner]

I personally think the option of flashing amber to all directions during low traffic periods is a great idea. Most new junctions are created without priority so it's first come first served so this may be an issue, but certainly with T-junctions you could easily turn the lights off at anything other than rush hour and things should run much smoother.

Having said all that, I had a back and forth argument with my local official about just this subject, everything he came back with was related to the DfTs analysis of the subject:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/9209/traffic-signals-low-demand-periods.pdf
Which basically concluded that anything other than what we do now is more dangerous. It's a very interesting read though if you've got time.

Anecdotally I too have witnessed traffic flowing MUCH better when lights weren't working. My current commute includes a 40mph road 3 miles long with 11 sets of lights on it - my average speed is 19mph and fuel economy drops during commute when compared to 'normal' driving elsewhere.
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Trev, now a biker?
Looking for first big bike.

[Bunny Lingus]

Jesus H. Christ, Sniff! Ain't that the shit right there... Needs the Frogger soundtrack...
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Bunny Lingus & The Flipside Faggots

[daemonoid]

Where I work is a very low traffic area, yet still they have lights. For the first 9 months they weren't on and it was smooth sailing, now everyone has to wait for no reason whatsoever.

India had a nice system of lights only working at certain times. It seemed as though lights were only necessary to prevent the absolute worst congestion. The rest of the time they just slow you down.
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[Rogerborg]

Mmm. Apparently though, if it saves one life...
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Baffler186]

It's hard to make a judgment from YouTube videos (I've seen lots like this and in places like Iran and India); there does seem to be fewer accidents per-vehicle used, but that may not be the full story. I doubt also whether other countries have the administrative infrastructure that we have in terms of reporting accident statistics.

That said, I think a phased introduction to fewer traffic lights would be good in the future, but the actual transition period would cause many more accidents. Just look at all the idiots who can't drive properly now, I don't think they'd be forced to be more alert.
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Current: 2009 SV650 S, 1990 Kawasaki GT550
Previous: 2009 CBF125, 1998 GSF600, 2004 FZ6 Fazer, 1978 CB400a Hondamatic

[DrSnoosnoo]

By IKEA in Birstall in Leeds, there's a mega junction that's a combination of a roundabout with some straight over roads and about a million lanes and just as many traffic lights

Here

It didn't have lights the other week, it was sooo smooth, people slowed and everyone had goes and turns of going and giving way - wonderful work people!
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[Rogerborg]

[Baffler186]

good point, but that could also have happened at a roundabout or junction with no lights. If it's busy, there will still be people stopping, creating a potential hazard for day-dreaming drivers to slam into.

IMO this country has had traffic lights for so long, it has led people to drive more reactively, rather than to plan ahead.

I don't know the answer, but can just assume that the causeof fewer accidents in aforementioned video is because it's way-of-life that's always been there, more dangerous some might say, but with anything perceived as more dangerous, people tend to be more alert and want to save their skin, plus develop better skills as a result.
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Current: 2009 SV650 S, 1990 Kawasaki GT550
Previous: 2009 CBF125, 1998 GSF600, 2004 FZ6 Fazer, 1978 CB400a Hondamatic

[tbourner]

Traffic systems are definitely designed around the idea of removing the decision from the driver. Traffic lights are 'easier' to navigate than roundabouts because you don't have to make any judgements at all other than is the light red or green.
Unfortunately people lower their awareness expectations for this and end up not really paying attention to anything. I'm trying to teach my wife to drive at the moment and I'm teaching her to drive not to pass her test; i.e.: I'm teaching her how I drive - she says she's knackered after an hour in the car; mentally exhausted, which is how I feel after a few hours on the road - why doesn't 90% of people feel like this? because they're half asleep when driving. The majority of the time people don't need to do anything when driving, when something does come up they'll often get lucky or be up against someone (biker for example) who is paying attention and avoids the situation on their behalf.
Having said all that, would removing lights change anything? Increase the level of awareness required and people move up to the same delta point below that level, and it's that delta where accidents lie.

Self driving cars will save us all.
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Trev, now a biker?
Looking for first big bike.

[daemonoid]

[Alpha-9]

At the same time I could see how that'd completely jam up to the extent nobody is moving at al for hours

Traffic lights are designed to improve traffic flow, not to get anyone anywhere quicker, thats more of a byproduct, but it doesn't work when there's no cars around

Shoudl be able to go through reds unless you fuck up, then its your fault
Thats my idea of law, do what you want until you fuck up, then you're in trouble, none of this minority report shit, don't speed incase you crash...
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Fzr-600 1999

[MC]

Yes, we could learn a lot from Ethiopia...

[Alpha-9]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Fair few times I have come across traffic lights not working and the traffic flowing far better. Not sure I can remember a time when the lights had failed and traffic flow was worse.

However I wonder whether part of the effect is people are used to slowing for the junction. Whether just removing the lights would work long term (without some time of official junction design where nobody had priority) I don't know.

Roundabouts tend to fail badly when there is a very large flow of traffic in one direction. But are a guaranteed regular delay when someone adds traffic lights to them.

All the best

Keith
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[Alpha-9]

[daemonoid]

[Furrybiker]

All I can say is Woonerf!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf

It works but seems to scare the powers that be, perhaps there are fewer fines to be dished out..

[MC]

Where do you people live? In London whenever the lights are out, there's a tailback for miles, with everyone at the junction trying to force their way through.

There's a roundabout in east london with temporary lights and the driving's appalling when they're off, people pulling out all the time and no lane discipline, the lights seem to slow people down so they think about what they're doing.
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[covent.gardens]

With traffic lights, you have time between phases where noone can move at all. Several seconds of potential movement per minute is wasted. Without lights, you're generally either moving yourself or giving way to someone else that's moving. Far more efficient.

[Rogerborg]