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Pi Programming Course via Cambridge Uni

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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 18 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd go for that if I were a teenager nowadays. Those little machines are going to do for IT in the next decade what the ZX81 did in the 1980s.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 19 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Andy_Pagin wrote:
I'd go for that if I were a teenager nowadays. Those little machines are going to do for IT in the next decade what the ZX81 did in the 1980s.


I'm dubious about such optimism. ZX81s in their day were an affordable route into ANY sort of computing. A programming manual came with the thing. Nowadays 16 year olds have phones with more computing power. You don't hear that many of them eager to learn programming for Andriod or iOS apps. They're spoiled for choice and have too many distractions. I'd take a good guess that the average age of Pi dabblers is way beyond the teenage years.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 19 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I Agree, it think many rPI's will have been bought by people 30+ with either the intention of coding like they did the good ol' days of the ZX81 or teaching their kids to program.

Most will have either ended up running raspXBMC or chucked in draw somewhere gathering dust.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThoughtControl wrote:
I'm dubious about such optimism. ZX81s in their day were an affordable route into ANY sort of computing. A programming manual came with the thing. Nowadays 16 year olds have phones with more computing power. You don't hear that many of them eager to learn programming for Andriod or iOS apps. They're spoiled for choice and have too many distractions. I'd take a good guess that the average age of Pi dabblers is way beyond the teenage years.


The difference is that most other routes to programming have a very high barrier to entry. The Pi is cheap and immediate. Better still, it can be used in schools and in any home. More the equivalent of the bbc micro rather than the ZX81 (which we all know wasn't even as good as the C64).
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The difference is that most other routes to programming have a very high barrier to entry.


How so?

you can learn most programming languages from books or the internet using notepad and very basic pc.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
How so?

you can learn most programming languages from books or the internet using notepad and very basic pc.


Choosing one of the 'most' to start with. Then, setting up an IDE, a compiler and actually getting any kind of response.

In the early days you booted up your computer, typed 10 PRINT "hello" and it did it. Now, give someone a PC and tell them to do something similar without any personal guidance and they'd be stuck.

Add to that the fact expectations are higher - everyone expects to start programming and immediately make the next angry birds.

There are lots of resources out there, there are solutions to these problems but... For a beginner who wants to start by themselves it's a lot harder than the '80s.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
its no different to the 80's, things just have shiny gui's now, if any thing it's easier then ever to learn programming. back then there was no google, had to RTFM to learn to do 10 PRINT "hello"

You had to buy computer magazines or read the manual to learn to program now you just google <insert preferred language> tutorial for beginners and off you go(Most 5 yr olds can manage that these days) there are video's, interactive websites, free uni courses etc. The list is endless.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
its no different to the 80's, things just have shiny gui's now, if any thing it's easier then ever to learn programming. back then there was no google, had to RTFM to learn to do 10 PRINT "hello"

You had to buy computer magazines or read the manual to learn to program now you just google <insert preferred language> tutorial for beginners and off you go(Most 5 yr olds can manage that these days) there are video's, interactive websites, free uni courses etc. The list is endless.


All of those are in the middle of the learning curve. And at that stage I'd agree - much easier, much more in the way of resources... A decent IDE and a debugger would've stopped me crying as a child.

Just because the modern manual is google doesn't make it not a manual. In fact, that makes it much worse - sure the tutorials are great, but you have to set up an environment... And which one? Everyone will advise you to start at a different language. Once you've chosen, you need to install the compiler/RTE/interpreter, then the IDE choice can be simple or you could need a separate plugin. You probably take these steps for granted, but someone new to it doesn't... They find each of the steps and each of the choices daunting.

80s: press the on button, wait, type 16 characters and hit enter and your first program is done. All of this was in the first page of the manual. It was easy enough for a 5-6 year old - cos that's when I started.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
true there is a lot of chaff out there on the internet. people's opinions on which language, which ide etc.

but I would still say its easier today then back then, god I remember spending hours typing away on my C64, line by line following the programs in the manual. then run

syntax error. Middle Finger arrgghh

now you just look it up on google.

I'm not a programmer BTW.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember my kids had an Atari XL800 with no roms where you had to type in the code from a magazine to play a game.
Miss one comma, one stinkin comma, and it wouldn't run.
Poke, Peek etc
who'd do that nowadays?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 20 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
true there is a lot of chaff out there on the internet. people's opinions on which language, which ide etc.

but I would still say its easier today then back then, god I remember spending hours typing away on my C64, line by line following the programs in the manual. then run

syntax error. Middle Finger arrgghh

now you just look it up on google.

I'm not a programmer BTW.


You're missing my point completely...
In the 80s you could write a line of code as soon as your computer booted.
Now it takes hours and lots of decisions for a noob to even get to that point.

Completely agree that the real learning is easier, but the barrier to entry is much higher. The pi is an attempt to bridge that gap - there's 'one' way to do things and everything is pre-installed and there's a community.
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