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Bad, bad accident in Westminster

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Pete.
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Bad, bad accident in Westminster Reply with quote

I passed the scene this morning. Right at the lights opposite Big Ben a bike was completely under the front of a lorry, all I could see was the top-box. Loads of police and paramedics on hand and they looked to be working on the guy in the road. Hope he survives, doesn't look good at all Sad
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh sheet Confused

That would explain the massive tailback standstill traffic to the Blackfriars tunnel.

I fought my way through on my CBR running into overheating temps, and turned right up to Trafalgar Square (my usual route) which is actually where the police were directing traffic anyway as they'd blocked the rest of the embankment up to Parliament.

Not good! Must have been between 8:15 - 8:30am?
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natefz6
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad That would have been on my way in a few weeks ago. Hope they are OK
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think it happened just before 8. Still closed off now Sad
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faaak.

Neutral
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's pretty fooked up. hope the rider is OK.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering why it was closed off, still all closed up at around 10am.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way it is under the front like that I'm guessing the biker (scooterist?) probably tried to tuck around the front of the truck as the lights changed or something.

Speeds are never very high at that junction so I doubt it was much of an impact.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
The way it is under the front like that I'm guessing the biker (scooterist?) probably tried to tuck around the front of the truck as the lights changed or something.

Looks likely. We all make our own choices about risk and reward, but I wouldn't be caught dead doing that.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think the guy made it Sad Sad
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
c_dug wrote:
The way it is under the front like that I'm guessing the biker (scooterist?) probably tried to tuck around the front of the truck as the lights changed or something.

Looks likely. We all make our own choices about risk and reward, but I wouldn't be caught dead doing that.



I do but I make lots of noise and make sure I'm seen.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Looks likely. We all make our own choices about risk and reward, but I wouldn't be caught dead doing that.


What you did there.

I saw it
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:

Looks likely. We all make our own choices about risk and reward, but I wouldn't be caught dead doing that.



I do but I make lots of noise and make sure I'm seen.


This.

No way would I do it on a twist and go scooter though.

To be fair the way some of the scooterists ride I'm surprised there isn't more of this, I've seen a huge increase of people using their phones while riding scooters, and a guy yesterday on one of those automatic NC700 thingies on his phone too. As if riding in London wasn't dangerous enough in the first place Rolling Eyes
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
To be fair the way some of the scooterists ride I'm surprised there isn't more of this, I've seen a huge increase of people using their phones while riding scooters, and a guy yesterday on one of those automatic NC700 thingies on his phone too. As if riding in London wasn't dangerous enough in the first place Rolling Eyes


Yep, seen that a lot too Laughing Phones wedged into their open face lids.

I sometimes answer mine but I have earphones in.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the phone is one thing, I've used my scala and my standard phone headset multiple times.

The numpties I'm on about are doing something that requires looking at the screen, while moving along, generally about 4 feet behind something big and hard like a bus.

I must see at least one a week that fits that precise description.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another bad accident on the way home tonight. A2 is still closed London-bound at the M25, I had to wait at the front coastbound coz they shut the road both ways whilst the air ambulance lifted a rider off the carriageway. Looks like it was a green zx10r or similar.
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Val
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
c_dug wrote:
The way it is under the front like that I'm guessing the biker (scooterist?) probably tried to tuck around the front of the truck as the lights changed or something.

Looks likely. We all make our own choices about risk and reward, but I wouldn't be caught dead doing that.


What if he was waiting for the lights and the lorry did not see him and reared him from behind?

That is the most likely scenario and I am not sure anybody can avoid this...in fact on scooter will be easier to try to escape.

I wonder why lorries are allowed there at first place in most EU major towns lorries are not allowed at all in down town during the day. Here is all about money they just pay some money for the emmision zone and go whenever they want. No concerns about safety whatsoever just stupid "Think bike" campaigns.

Hope the guy is ok. This is my going to work route Sad
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing in the news I can find but someone on site said he didn't make it.

The way that scooter is under the lorry, and knowing the junction, I think it's very possible he got in front of the truck by filtering right to the front up the left turn lane which is often empty then squeezing past the island and cutting across in front to wait for the light (or the lights changed as he got there). Either way it would be very easy to get there unseen by the lorry driver via his blind spot.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

valko wrote:
What if he was waiting for the lights and the lorry did not see him and reared him from behind?

Mmm, that's the only biking scenario that really concerns me. Not much you can do there.


valko wrote:
That is the most likely scenario

Respectfully, I disagree. I'd go with 50/50 on rear ended vs filtering in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I actually hope that you're right (given that the outcome is the same either way) since I doubt it would take much for Nanny State to ban all filtering.


valko wrote:
I wonder why lorries are allowed there at first place in most EU major towns lorries are not allowed at all in down town during the day. Here is all about money they just pay some money for the emmision zone and go whenever they want. No concerns about safety whatsoever just stupid "Think bike" campaigns.

Interesting, I didn't know that.
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's a sweeping generalisation, but it's more often than not that it's a scooterist doing a filtering move that makes me cringe.

It's as though because they can manoeuvre into places a bigger bike might not be able to they'll just go for it, with no consideration to the position they are placing themselves in relation to much bugger road users, such as lorries, who have restricted vision in their mirrors.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 27 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if he stayed close to the lorry to avoid impinging on the cyclist box as a result of the recent enforcement of it (verbal enforcement, at least), instead of going up to the advanced stop line and being visible to the lorry driver.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 04:50 - 28 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there really a blindspot that big *in front* of a lorry that's so deep into London? I can't quite believe a bike can't be seen from the cab, if it's close in front. I get that they're high, but so much that the downward blind spot angle hides a bike?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 06:14 - 28 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
I wonder if he stayed close to the lorry to avoid impinging on the cyclist box as a result of the recent enforcement of it (verbal enforcement, at least), instead of going up to the advanced stop line and being visible to the lorry driver.


I don't think there's a cycle box or ASL there. No room for a feeder. I think there used to be but it's now one large pedestrian crossing.
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m3-paul
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 28 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheBaldReverend wrote:
I know it's a sweeping generalisation, but it's more often than not that it's a scooterist doing a filtering move that makes me cringe.

It's as though because they can manoeuvre into places a bigger bike might not be able to they'll just go for it, with no consideration to the position they are placing themselves in relation to much bugger road users, such as lorries, who have restricted vision in their mirrors.


I very much agree with this.
I took my neighbour through London yesterday to the passport office (in the car). She doesn't ride bikes (trying to change that Laughing ) but she was saying in general conversation how she tries to be very aware of motorbikes and gives them as much room as she can, but, it is the scooters and peds that scare her.
We started watching the scooters and they take ridiculous risks, the bikes were in the main being ridden far my confidently and competently.
I cringed at least 5 times watching scooters riders trying to make their way through the traffic. Obviously we don't know who is at fault for this particular accident but scooter riders certainly do themselves no favours.
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