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Tor network, what's the point?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
I watched a documentary on the dark web last night then went and looked at the Tor sight. Tor list so many vulnrabilties it seems there's no point using it.
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James83
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
I watched a documentary on the dark web last night then went and looked at the Tor sight. Tor list so many vulnrabilties it seems there's no point using it.


I take it you posted this from a PC that wasn't running windows?
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BakesBeans
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
You clearly didn't get the point of the program then.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
I watched a documentary on the dark web

ORLY?

Name?
Possible to watch online?
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stigger
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:
Boozehawk wrote:
I watched a documentary on the dark web

ORLY?

Name?
Possible to watch online?
I assume it was the Horizon ep.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
stigger wrote:


I assume it was the Horizon ep.


Yes it was the Horizon doc. My questions abou the Tor software though.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
stigger wrote:


I assume it was the Horizon ep.


Yes it was the Horizon doc. My questions abou the Tor software though.


Really.. a docu from a state funded propaganda machine says "many flaws" and you swallow it.

/thread
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:


Really.. a docu from a state funded propaganda machine says "many flaws" and you swallow it.

/thread


I'm talking about what Tor say themselves on their own site. Read my original post.

Tor say themselves their client software is vulnerable to "man in the middle" attack and to eavsdropping on the "exit node" of the network.
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James83
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O8J2locx5o
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stigger
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
CaNsA wrote:


Really.. a docu from a state funded propaganda machine says "many flaws" and you swallow it.

/thread


I'm talking about what Tor say themselves on their own site. Read my original post.

Tor say themselves their client software is vulnerable to "man in the middle" attack and to eavsdropping on the "exit node" of the network.
So that you know what you're getting into, it's called full disclosure.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
stigger wrote:
So that you know what you're getting into, it's called full disclosure.


Covering their arses effectively? If yu get hacked don't blame our network etc?

But is the Tor client actually effective? The fact Tor is availabe through google playstore dousent make it a bit suspect?
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
CaNsA wrote:


Really.. a docu from a state funded propaganda machine says "many flaws" and you swallow it.

/thread


I'm talking about what Tor say themselves on their own site. Read my original post.

Tor say themselves their client software is vulnerable to "man in the middle" attack and to eavsdropping on the "exit node" of the network.


1. What did you want to find on "dark web"?

2. Online security and anonymity is constantly evolving field.
There will always be flaws, there will always be fixes.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 04 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
Tor say themselves their client software is vulnerable to "man in the middle" attack and to eavsdropping on the "exit node" of the network.


Do you have a link to this? Too tired to go trawling through the site right now. The below is just general/non-tailored comments based on what I'm guessing those topics to be about;

I'd be very interested to read about the MITM attack. The only one that I'm aware of involves the Heartbleed bug, as it potentially disclosed private keys, where a number of nodes were affected in the TOR network. However, I was under the impression that those nodes were removed from the network. The TOR protocol is pretty clever - I remember looking at how it worked during a computer security module.

Regarding the exit node eavesdropping, any data on the exit end is surely going to be possible to be eavesdropped? The key part is that the information, whilst able to be seen, cannot be traced back to your computer.

Although many people take things like TOR to be the ultimate guide to protection. I remember reading an article about one user who posted a bomb threat to get out of an examination at school. They used TOR to do it. However, as it was done from their (logged) network, and only one person used TOR there, it was pretty easy to identify who did it without having to actually find a flaw in the protocol itself.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
CaNsA wrote:

1. What did you want to find on "dark web"?

2. Online security and anonymity is constantly evolving field.
There will always be flaws, there will always be fixes.


I have absolutely no need for the dark web unless the NSA are interested in my history of watching dexter on Amazon prime or my collection of pictures of motorcycles i'll never be able to afford.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
But is the Tor client actually effective? The fact Tor is availabe through google playstore dousent make it a bit suspect?


The principal is great. Basically:

You're user A. You pick nodes N1 & N2 and want to access website W.

You encrypt the data and URL for W with N2's public key. Only N2 can read this.
You send the encrypted data to N1, telling it to send it to N2.
N2 takes the data, decrypts it, and sends it to W.

W will never see A or N1 because it only talks to N2.
N2 will never know A because it only talks to N1 and W.
N1 will never know W because W (and its data) is encrypted for only N2 to see.

I think that's right. Could very well have remembered it incorrectly/explained it wrong.
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stigger
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
stigger wrote:
So that you know what you're getting into, it's called full disclosure.


Covering their arses effectively? If yu get hacked don't blame our network etc?

But is the Tor client actually effective? The fact Tor is availabe through google playstore dousent make it a bit suspect?
They don't need to cover their arses they've not sold you anything.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
J.M. wrote:

The principal is great. Basically:

You're user A. You pick nodes N1 & N2 and want to access website W.

You encrypt the data and URL for W with N2's public key. Only N2 can read this.
You send the encrypted data to N1, telling it to send it to N2.
N2 takes the data, decrypts it, and sends it to W.

W will never see A or N1 because it only talks to N2.
N2 will never know A because it only talks to N1 and W.
N1 will never know W because W (and its data) is encrypted for only N2 to see.

I think that's right. Could very well have remembered it incorrectly/explained it wrong.


That's a pretty cool description that looks how old fashioned spying cells work to exchange info. Smart Smile
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Going
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PostPosted: 02:48 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:
Tor say themselves their client software is vulnerable to "man in the middle" attack and to eavsdropping on the "exit node" of the network.


This is to let you know if you sign into a unencrypted site, like this one, they could steal your login and password.
If you go to an encrypted site you should be safe, just check the certificate.
Login into a website defeats the purpose of tor, as tor is for anonymously, not security.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: Tor network, what's the point? Reply with quote
Going wrote:


is is to let you know if you sign into a unencrypted site, like this one, they could steal your login and password.
If you go to an encrypted site you should be safe, just check the certificate.
Login into a website defeats the purpose of tor, as tor is for anonymously, not security.


Cheers that makes sense thanks.
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Conzar
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I watched this, enjoyed it.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I watched it last night too, highly interesting.

I like what Edward Snowden said about encryption does work and you've just got to educate yourself about it.

It reminded me of a phone that I was interested in last year which had security as the priority.

https://www.blackphone.ch

I'm seriously considering buying one myself. One of the main reasons I don't have any apps on my mobile is because I do not trust/like all the crazy permissions some of these apps want access too. The black phone allows you to check which permissions you want and blocks the rest, not to mention all the encrypted calling/texts, etc.

Like one of them security researchers said in the programme, "As you're being surveilled 24/7, you are more under control, you are less free, you are less autonomous".

I really do worry about what the world is going to be like in 10 - 15 years time. I need to stop watching films about dystopian future.

Last edited by Jayy on 17:30 - 05 Sep 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
R1 Jay wrote:
I watched it last night too, highly interesting.

I like what Edward Snowden said about encryption does work and you've just got to educate yourself about it.

It reminded me of a phone that I was interested in last year which had security as the priority.

https://www.blackphone.ch

I'm seriously considering buying one myself. One of the main reasons I don't have any apps on my mobile is because I do not trust/like all the crazy permissions some of these apps want access too. The black phone allows you to check which permissions you want and blocks the rest, not to mention all the encrypted calling/texts, etc



I thought that blackphone got hacked almost out of the box at some geek convention last month?
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boozehawk wrote:

I thought that blackphone got hacked almost out of the box at some geek convention last month?


I read all that as well but the attacks had to be consented by the user and were not remote.

Bit like those guys who hacked a ECU/CDI box in a car to hijack it and control it from a laptop.... they had to have special kit in the engine and had all the dash board hanging off with wires everywhere.

Like Cansa said, security is always evolving, as with any software, zero day exploits will be found and sometimes published or if you're the NSA, keep quiet and exploit the fuck out of them.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 05 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the more you learn and educate yourself about now and keep up with it all will come in massively handy in 5 - 10 years time when everything is fucked!
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